I am a big fan of Michael Jecks' books and one of his characters, Sir Baldwin of Furnshill, an ex-Templar who escaped from France in 1307 when Philip IV went after the Templars and returned to inherit his older brother's estate is now Keeper of the King's Peace during the sad and chaotic reign of Edward II. He is described as carrying a riding sword with the blade and steel furniture blued but with a very small Templar Cross engraved at the base of the blade. Now, I am a very visual person and do sketches of the characters in novels and am wondering what sort of sword that would be. Can anyone help me, perhaps by drawing a parallel to one of Albion's Next Generation swords, say an Oakeshott Type XI such as the Hospitaller or a Type XII such as the Knight or, perhaps, a Type XIV such as the Sheriff, the Yoeman, or the Sovereign. Medieval swords of that late a period are not my field of knowledge.

The first quarter of the 14th century had many Oakeshott types in play. Besides the XII-Knight and XIV-Sovereign that you mentioned for riding swords, your character could be wearing a type XIIIb like the Albion Tritonia, a type XV like the Poitiers, or a type XVI like the Squire or Prince. Of all these, I would pick a type XIV for a riding sword.

I would say a XIV would be the most likely. The blade type was immensely popular during that period, and was usually a bit shorter then others. The Albion yeoman would make an excellent riding sword. Nice and quick, but with plenty of cutting power and thrusting ability too.

An XII would also be possible.

Roger beat me to it. At that time it could have been a XII, XIIa, XIII, XIIIa, XIIIb, XIV or XV. :) As a riding sword however I would concur with a XIV or perhaps a XV. The others are more war swords in my estimation.

So a Type XV such as the Poitiers sword would have been in use in the 1st Quarter of the 14th Century? I LIKE it! That is THE PERFECT image of Sir Baldwin's sword! :D :D

Thanks much you guys.

Well, it seems that I have found this tread 8 months too late but I can't resist the urge to join in with my 2 cents worth.

Hugh, I am also a huge fan of Sir Baldwin and his peacock blue riding sword. If I remember correctly he has this sword made for him in one of the early novels, perhaps 1318. At 40+ years of age and his soldiering days behind him I would guess that Sir Baldwin would be most comfortable with a style of sword that would have been in common usage at the end of the 13th century when he and his Templar comrades fought to defend Acre.

As much as I like the type XV sword, I just ordered an Albion Poitiers, I think Sir Baldwin would have gone "old school" and selected a type XIV. The short blade length would make an ideal riding sword and the wide fuller would offer the perfect spot to have his Templar Cross engraved. On the other hand the type XV blade is typically longer and the flattened diamond cross-sectioned blade does not lend itself easily to engravings.

The author, Michael Jecks, has a website http://www.michaeljecks.co.uk/index.html and on the site I found this email link that solicited questions for the author, website@michaeljecks.co.uk . I think I'll write and ask if Mr Jecks has a particular sword type in mind.

Ed Thyberg

As I mentioned in my post above, I sent a message to author Michael Jecks posing the question of Sir Baldwin's sword. To my surprise and delight I received a reply within hours. Jecks says, in part

Quote:

Actually the type of sword is pulled straight from Oakeshott's books. He mentioned a peacock blue blade, and the colour fascinated me. ...also from Ewart's books... was the size - a typical riding sword.

This weekend Michael Jecks is involved with the Dartmoor Folk Festival but after that he said he would check in his records to determine exactly which swords he was thinking of. Of course I will relay any information that is forthcoming from Mr Jecks.

Ed Thyberg

Here is Michael Jeck's reply;

"Right - the type of sword is Oakeshotte's type XVI.4 from his "Records". I took this style because it was of the correct period and I liked the blade's shape, but I think I took the cross from the previous page's XVI.3, from memory.

The quote comes from the type X.12, while the idea of the Templar cross is pure invention. Somewhere within the book there is a description of a sword with a 'peacock blue' blade, but I cannot find the damn reference for the life of me just now! However, I do know that I've not made it up. My neighbour here is a blacksmith, and he's made a blue sword out of some good carbon steel. As with all these things, it's a matter of getting the temperature and quenching process just right - and our ancestors were very good at such craftsmanship!"

Can anybody provide documentation for a blue sword blade during the first half of the 14th century? Do you know where I might find an Oakeshott reference to blued blades, if not in "Records" then perhaps another one of his books?

Ed Thyberg

The sword with the peacock blue blade is the XVII.2 from Records (pg. 160 on my copy). :D

Thanks Colin, that helps a bunch. Unfortunately that also raises more questions...why is the blade a peacock blue? My guess is the mud it was buried in had certain chemicals that reacted with the iron to create the blue rather than having the smith intentionally blue the blade. While it is certainly possible to heat blue steel....typically the heat required to attain the blue is high enough to make the blade too soft to hold a good edge...it would be really springy...but not hard enough.
That would be why my guess would be the mud reactants....which might also explain why the blade is blue while the hilt is purple....the plain iron of the hilt having reacted slightly differently.
Just a thought,
Dan

I'd love to find an example of a 14th century sword with a blued blade documented as the original/intentional color.

According to the author's reply, Sir Baldwin's riding sword would look like this;
[ Linked Image ]

with this cross;
[ Linked Image ]

In addition to the engraved Templar Cross on one side, the letters BOAC were engraved on the other.
BOAC = Beati Omnipotensque Angeli Christi- Blessed and omnipotent the angels of Christ which, as it relates to the character Sir Baldwin, refers to his past life as a Templar Knight (Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon) but I also noticed that the Latin phrase appears as the title of an article by Oakeshott in a 1986 London Park Lane Arms Fair catalogue. Does anyone know what the Oakeshott reference is?

Thanks, Ed Thyberg

Here is a bigger picture of the Type XVI riding sword, once in Oakeshott's collection. It went from there to the collection of Douglas Ash, then to the collection of Howard Curtis. This pic is from the Christie's catalogue from the sale of the Curtis collection following his death. I don't know where the sword is now.

[ Linked Image ]

Hmm...so the sword was supposed to look something like this?
Dan

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LoL...yes that's a little neon...but I guess the actual color of peacock blue is up for debate....trying to match it to the actual color of a peacock feather I get this. Of course, the color would be a little more even over the surface.
Dan

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Wow, thats a lot of books!

If only George Martin could write that fast....... ;)