US takes gold, silver, and bronze in woman's fencing! WOOOOT!!! :D

You realise not everyone on the forum is in the US?

I can't wait to watch the Finals of both Athletics and Football!
Speaking of Football, the attention is now focused on both Argentina (men's) and the United States (women's), the defending gold medallists. The question is - Are they able to recapture their titles at this year's Olympics? We will find out.

Modern saber technique in my opinion has the least actual amount of "fencing" in it of the 3 weapons. When an American gets a medal for foil or epee' then there will be something to shout about. But probably not in this lifetime.

Fencing is really the only Olympic sport I'm interested in. Unfortunately, I keep missing it. :(

J. Erb wrote:

The saberists (sabreurs?) in my fencing club might argue the point, but personally, I'm inclined to agree with you: As I've seen it, saber is the messiest, roughest, least elegant division of modern sport fencing. Epee and foil, to my thinking, at least attempt to reflect their rapier-and-smallsword heritage.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the epee the most recent addition? As I heard, it was introduced in modern times and never actually evolved out of an older dueling style like the foil and saber did.

Thanks for the info -- that certainly clarifies things. :)

J Erb said:
"The saberists (sabreurs?) in my fencing club might argue the point, but personally, I'm inclined to agree with you: As I've seen it, saber is the messiest, roughest, least elegant division of modern sport fencing. Epee and foil, to my thinking, at least attempt to reflect their rapier-and-smallsword heritage."



My issue with sabre is at the highest levels its mostly just a matter running down the strip, screaming, slapping the opponents blade to get priority, hitting once and then stopping to look at the Director. Ghastly! No phrasing, 2nd or 3rd intention or anything. The mens sabre is no different.
The young girl from Tunisia displayed more fencing skill than anyone else. Her opponent was almost at a lost as to what to do. It was the only enjoyable bout all night.
Viva Tunisia!

That issue applies to all three weapons of sport fencing. Even epee (my own weapon) is a far cry from accurate combat techniques. I've learned to accept this. Pistol grips, flicks, etc. I am resolved to take up strict classical fencing as soon as it's geographically feasible.

On another note, the one bout I caught was the final women's foil, between an Italian and a Korean. Ended 6 to 5 Italy. Great bout. Kept me on the edge of my seat until the final second. And I then had to explain right of way to all the non-fencers in my office. :)

I'm the first one to say that sabre is very far from its historical counterpart. But that said, I also don't think its fair to point our noses up to anyone who wins a medal in the sport, *especially* at the Olympic level. It takes an incredible amount of athleticism, speed, agility, timing and, most of all, dedicated training. Its quite a huge accomplishment to win in the Olympics.

Quote:

You realise not everyone on the forum is in the US?

Had the UK won (or any other country, for that matter), and someone posted about being excited about it, I don't think you'd see anyone offended here. :)

Dustin wrote:
"The problem stems from the fact that the fencing saber is the lightest and flimsiest of all the fencing weapons"

The new sabers are stiffer and more solid than the old ones, this was done to improve the game, but it did little. However it is a sport and sports have a way of evolving into esoteric techniques. Sort of like Ken-jitsu and Ken-do. One is "fighting with the sword" and the other is "the way of the sword." Both are good. I enjoy both rapier/smallsword and modern foil. I find it to be more holistic. Accent on the "whole".

I certainly dont mean to demean the players, to be an Olympian is a huge accomplishment.....even in sabre. lol.

Just to be quite certain that I didn't step on any toes: I never meant to imply that foil and epee were inherently superior to saber. To each his own. :)

And now, since I seem to be feeling strangely chatty today...

Quote:

That issue applies to all three weapons of sport fencing. Even epee (my own weapon) is a far cry from accurate combat techniques. I've learned to accept this. Pistol grips, flicks, etc. I am resolved to take up strict classical fencing as soon as it's geographically feasible.

The significant gap between historical fencing and sport fencing has bothered me for some time now. I actually only took up sport fencing because it was the closest I thought I could get to swordplay. I didn't know that there were groups of other people as obsessed -- I mean, as interested ;) -- in swords as I was who practiced historical sword fencing. I have found fencing, particularly epee, to be highly enjoyable, but I can never quite forget that it's only based on historical sword techniques. This has left me with a strong desire to at least investigate classical fencing -- after I've found someplace that offers it and isn't hours away, and after I can make the time and money to put into it. :)

It is a very great thing for the sport of fencingin the US that the US. 20 some odd years ago I remeber listening to the heads of fencing community fencing tournaments dream about winning something, anything to help put fencing get into mainstream America. It is a great accomplishment.

The problem with olympic or sport fencing lies not in the fencers, but in their coaches. As long as the coaches continue to allow their students to executes things like the "flick-hit" and have bad form and sloppy technique then it continue to remain unappealing to the general public, as they cannot discern actions nor phrase des armes (neither can most of the directors nowadays for that matter. But then again it neither entirely the coaches fault either, the ruling association , who, in desperation for perpetuating the sport that enthraled them when they were young, what fencer cannot say that they never watched Errol Flynn when they were young?, seek the quickest methods for producing medal winners, thereby achieving noteriety and money to continue to run a fencing programs allow those very "producing techniques" to wittle away interest for the very sport that they love. Else why would the Masters program at San Jose State exist? Those same masters abandon olympic fencing because it betrays the skills that they have learned. Make sense?

My humble opinion is to get rid of electric scoring, make the weapons more rigid and heavy or bring back the old form qualification to enter ranked tournaments.

But I still love to watch a good bout!

P.S. I would hold that any olympian if given a real rapier would still clobber any of us in the historic, classical, or WMA world, simply because of their massive training. What could we all become if we really spent the first year entirely on footwork? and the next 5 years perfecting our form and technique only under the hand of a fencing master?

P.P.S Sorry if that sounded more like a rant. I am just trying to say the most in the least possible time. There's tons written about our very dilema at hand. I have to hurry and go move tomato plant before dark! :)

Hi All,

Having spent some years fencing, admittedly many years ago.....ahmmm, I just wanted to throw in a point or two, pun intended! :D

I can quite agree with Morgans point regarding the sabre being the weapon with the least fencing type skill to it. However, as my understanding of it is that it was descended from the cavalry sword, and used on horse back, the idea of attack, parry, reposte, parry, reposte, parry, repries of the reposte etc. is not quite so relevent to this weapon. Personally it was my favourite weapon, though regrettably never at the level you are talking about, though I did fence with many members of the English training squad at the time......and always got beaten! :lol:
And regarding the epée , again as my understanding of it is/was, being descended from the duelling weapons there were no fancy rules, no right of way, no 'off target' etc. It was a somewhat cruel, occassionally crude, but effective way of using a sword , especially when your life depended on it. We by the way, occassionally used to use a 'point Garry', which had three fairly sharp points at the tip, which hurt like hell, when run down an advancing unprotected shin, or accidentally went up a sleeve! :eek: But it was a good and effective way of learing the sharp brutality of the weapon, and where it evolved from!
Foil, well, I always found it incredibly boring, a necessity, but boring. Probably because I was so ham fisted at it, perhaps. But given an epée or sabre that was a different matter.....................great fun. :D

Just a few thoughts from an old ex- fencer :)

Regards,

Russ