I know almost nothing about these Afghan knives. I've admired the general form on the rare occasion I've seen them and my interest was stirred while reading Flashman In the Great Game in recent weeks. By coincidence, somebody posted here a link to a new arms auction house that's offering several of these weapons. The more I look at these the more I like them. They remind of the German rugger. Slender lines, compact size, scale grips.... Does anybody know of decent reproductions or at least cheap indecent ones that could be remounted? I found no other significant discussion in these fora. Here are a few 19th c. examples from the auction site mentioned above. They're about 26" overall.

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http://www.atlantacutlery.com/atlantacutlery/

Atlanta Cutlery use to have a similar knife for sale. You might give them a try.

See also: RUSSIAN KINDJAL
400318
or:
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http://www.bytheswordinc.com/acatalog/Standard_Knives_Page_2.html

Well Hanwei will soon be releasing Tristan's sword from the Movie stardust....which follows along the same general lines (with some yhatagan/fantasy influences thrown in)
Dan
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Hi Sean,

I also have admired these knives (short swords really) for some time. Over the course of the last year, I have acquired three of these large Kyber Knives. Mine are approximately mid to late 19th century and are wicked sharp and fast. Each is unique.

I have not seen much in the way of reproductions, but like many middle eastern/indo persian/ islamic edged weapons, great buys of originals do appear on e-bay from time to time. Some antiques in poor condition are sold without reserve and may suit your purpose as a project (if you can bring yourself to work on an original, albeit one in poor condition)

Short of that, if I come across any reproduction sources I will post it. I can't believe some Indian maker isn't turning these out.....

Best regards,

Terry

Do not these style of knives have a strange "T" shape on the spine of the blade?

Not sure what you mean by "strange", but yes, they do have a "T" cross section, with the "T" being at the top the blade opposite the sharped edge. I have heard this referred to as the yelmen (SP?) and is a common feature on these weapons. Strenghtens the blade and looks quite cool in my opinion, but maybe I am the strange one :D

Thanks for posting those pictures! I'm drooling already. ;)

If you try the By The Sword one, please share your thoughts on its quality. I'm trying to choose between that and a Qama for my next cheap fun Islamic short sword.

As to yelman, I've only heard that used for the "false edge" on Turkish pala, but I'm not an expert by any means!

I was told that the T shape to the blade cross section was to stiffen the point of the blade to allow it to pierce chain mail more easily.

Well much of the rest of the blade is thin or moderately thick, the idea being that the spine strengthens it like an I-beam (see Mr. Trim's new sparring design? same idea) while minimizing their thickness at the edge. Thus you get a thin but very tough blade, ideal for chopping through. By the time the T spine passes through, the cut is already wide enough to make its effect negligible, barring bad cutting angle and user error.

Hi Korey,

You wrote, "Beautiful knives but I'm turned off by the thought of how that cross-section would affect cutting ability."

The T rib doesn't go all the way to the tip of the knife and wouldn't cause a problem either in slashing or stabbing while it would give a thin blade a lot of strength and rigidity. I think these are very well designed weapons.Bear in mind that these knives are from the Khyber Pass area, Afghanistan, and the Afghanis have been killing people ( invaders, each other, Hindus) since the time of Hannibal if not before.



Regards,


Ken

Terry Crane....I meant "strange" as in a unusual feature that I have never seen before...I couldnt judge if you are strange or not....But I have been called it and some of my best friends are odd little people :D , so that is not too negative a word in my lexicon!
Theory: would the T-back allow them to block weapons that would normally damage a similar blade of that size/thickness? Not that this was a reason for such construction, but more of a happy accident.
And historically , what is the naitive metallurgy like? Do they have a rep either good or bad? Could the T-back have been a way for them to compensate for bad steel?

Hi Kelly,

You wrote, ""Do not these style of knives have a strange "T" shape on the spine of the blade?"

I just remembered that I once owned an old sword bayonet that had a blade that was nearly two feet long and it had a T cross section for all but six inches or so of the tip. My guess is that the bayonet was German in the general sense inasmuch as the script and the language of the engraving on the blade seemed Germanic. That T cross section must not be all that strange, I'm sure those bayonets and similar ones must have been made in the hundreds of thousands.

Its a great way to provide rigidity and still keep weight down in a blade.

Regards,


Ken

The AH prefix offerings linked are Deepeeka products and have a kind of dissapointing look to the blade crossections. I'm afraid that might be the result from any of the producers and exporters from the area. If one is happy with the overall profile, I guess they might suit. The HAnwei prototype seems to at least nod to the crossection. I know my yataghan has a pretty serioushollow to the grind that kind of mimics this to and extent but the cutting edges of these seem even thinner. Hard to tell from the pictures alone i guess.

Cheers

GC

I agree with Ken regarding the fact that there really is no issue with the T-back creating a problem with cutting ability or effectiveness as a weapon to be used for its purpose. Many eastern swords and knives have this feature including the Kilij, some Saifs and many Shamshirs.

There are two threads listed in this index right now which have many pictures of middle eastern swords with this feature. The Kilij in particular was known as a very effective weapon utilized by the Ottoman Turks, who knew a thing or two about warfare and the art edged weapon combat.

The Kyber Knife is generally a short sword sized weapon used to stab and hack. Its not a cutting exercise weaponby any means. The blades are very sharp and mine are quite light and lively with most of the weight in sitting in your fist, it has very little blade presence. ... That being said, they are very nasty , and feel quite deadly and as an unarmoured opponent, I certainly would not want to face one!!!

I agree that the Deepeeka offering probably isn't of the best quality. However, a slightly better photo from their website seems to show that they could possibly feature the T section (or it could just be a fuller I suppose).
Dan
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Looks like a khyber knife to me, down to the imitation koftgari on the blade. The only difference would be the tulwar-like handguard.

Very appealing blade all around!