Perhaps of interest to our members http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/search/display.var..._sword.php
unfortuently the sword is only shown in silhouette due to the 'arty' press photography, although dated to 1100 the press release calls it a 'Viking' sword and it does seem to display late viking age features.

Dave

Here's a different article with better photos: http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/content/a...ture.shtml

:) It look's heavy and like it have a real width blade when i compare with my hand, around 7cm or something.
Super size photo here(Link)

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Alright! Finally I can go see one of my top 3 favorite swords. Thanks for pointing this out.

Del Tin has a replica of this sword which, according to the myArmoury review, is quite heavy and unwieldy.

Windlass/MRL used to have a replica that's somewhat lighter. I have one of these and despite being quite blade heavy, it handles decently and has been a solid sword over the years.

An interesting sword and an interesting history/story behind it. I'm somewhat suprized that the inscription on the blade is untranslatable. It seems like these two nearly identical swords should be part of a story. Well, I suppose they are part of a story, we just don't know much of it! I suppose we probably never will.

Could someone tell me a little of the relevant history. What Viking was at the castle at that time?

I was also interested to see that Del Tin says their replica is a twelfth century sword.

I have no way to tell if the sword or the replica are unwieldy or not but they do look like they would be heavy cut and chop swords.


Ken Speed

I've played with both the Del Tin and Windlass versions neither of which struck me as particularly heavy but the Del tin was a little blade heavy owing to the small pommel. As to the twelfth century date by Del Tin, I thought this was shared by Oakeshotte and was one of his defining examples of type XII. Haven't read him in a while though. It does however seem to share enough characteristics with the Scottish swords on which Albion's Caithness is based to suggest a familial relationship.

I can see it being compared with an Anglo-Saxon sword like the Theign. The guard looks to be later (12th-13th century maybe), and uncommon for 11th century. I wonder if it could have been re-hilted? The fuller looks more like a later period sword too (extending 2/3rd down the blade, not very wide. If I had to compare the blade to an Albion Viking model blade it would be the Knud (based on 11th century, U shaped pommels, something like 5 examples in total known, none of which remind me of this sword.)

The sword is actually described as "a 900 year old Viking sword" (putting it close to 11th century) in this article; http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknews/disp..._sword.php

It is speculated (not sure why) that King Athelstane may have built the first fortification at this find's site in the 10th century. The earliest known recorded mention was at the end of 12th century. There was a lot of activity and visiting nobility 13th - 14th century.

Jared wrote,

" The sword is actually described as "a 900 year old Viking sword" (putting it close to 11th century) in this article; http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknews/disp..._sword.php "

First. let me be totally straight forward about this. I do not and do not purport to know a lot about swords historical or otherwise. I'm quite content to accept it as what we have been told. I'm trying to get a perspective on how a Scandinavian sword got to Yorkshire in the 11th century. The battle of Stamford bridge was in 1066, just before the battle of Hastings and Stamford bridge was supposed to have been so disastrous for the Vikings that it literally marked the end of the Viking age as it relates to raiding along the Atlantic. For that matter, Del Tin says the replica of the swords mate that they sell is a 12th century sword. OK, but what intercourse (not THAT kind of intercourse, calm down) was happening between Yorkshire and Scandinavia in the 11 and/or 12 centuries? I think it becomes especially intriguing when there is an inscription that no one can translate and only one other sword like it in the world and that one in Norway. That's why it seems to me that there is a real story here somewhere and its lost!

The Crusades were later than that weren't they? I guess my problem is that I don't really know what was happening in Scandinavia and Britain at that time. In the U.S. there is no end of books about British history because it so strongly relates to American history but to find a history of Scandinavia in English in the U.S. is like trying to find a history of Barsoom. It's really frustrating, its like being in a dark room and having a strobe light go off at irregular intervals, Flash Count Ferson (Marie Antoinette's lover) Flash Gastav Adolf and the Thirty Years War, Flash Alfred Nobel, Flash Quisling.

"It is speculated (not sure why) that King Athelstane may have built the first fortification at this find's site in the 10th century. The earliest known recorded mention was at the end of 12th century. There was a lot of activity and visiting nobility 13th - 14th century.[/quote] ;" . I can't see a nobleman from Scandinavia going to 14th Century Britain with an 11Century sword, can you?

Best regards,




Ken Speed

Here's what our Type XII spotlight article says about it:

Quote:

XII.7 Located in a private collection, once on loan to the Tower Armouries Oakeshott refers to this sword as "outstandingly important" and dates it circa 1100-50, despite other scholars dating it to nearly 200 years later. He refers to another sword, XII.3 above, that is nearly identical. Inscriptions on the 32" long blade, in two distinct letterforms, closely match other 11th-12th century examples. Detailed analysis of these details can be found in Oakeshott's Records of the Medieval Sword.

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I am no expert but there appears to be some common misconceptions here, the fuller on 'viking' blades has often been described by some as the 'blood grove' to allow easy removal from a body, or even by twisting the sword it makes extraction easy because the fuller prevents suction from the flesh of the wound when the blade is twisted to remove!

My own understanding is that the fuller is simply there to remove weight from the blade without distracting from its strength.

Why would Yorkshire have 'Viking' or scandanavian cultural influence in the late 11th C?

This part of northern England had been under Norse and Danish influence for over 200 years since the Danes first took over the Anglian stronghold of the regions capital which we now know as York, and the Danes called Jorvik, and many other place names and personal names associated to the area attest to their influence. Jorvik was a major trading centre for the import of goods from Ireland and Scandanavia, the Baltic and beyond.

It should be remembered that the use of runes was also practised by both the Anglo-Saxon and Scandanavians, and it is not suprising the the runic inscription has not been deciphered as is the case of other runic inscriptions, some of these runes can be described as been 'magical' inscribtions and can not always be deciphered (or are described as magical because they can not be dechipered by modern scholars!)

I believe this sword was found within the property of a local high status clergy member.


Dave

Wow.....this was in the Yorkshire Museum over the holidays and I missed it? Darn! I was in the US visiting my family. I'm now back in York for the Spring term and I definitely hope I can see this at the time of the Viking Festival in February!

All,

You can probably tell that the mystery around these two swords interests me. Well, I did a little bit of research and while I can't claim that I found anything that directly connects to these swords I did find some things in the approximate time period that might connect to them in one way or another. I'll list them chronologically. If anyone wants to eliminate any of the events I list or add others, write and make a persuasive argument for your point and we'll see what happens.


1096 Start of the First Crusade

1099 Crusaders take Jerusalem

1100 William Rufus accidentally killed

1103 Magnus III of Norway killed invading Ireland

1104 Acre taken by Crusaders

1109 to 1113 England and France at war

1139 English Civil War/Queen Matilda

1170 Thomas Becket murdered

1187 Saladin defeats Crusaders at Hattin and takes Jerusalem

1194 Richard the Lionhearted is released and crowned King for the second time

1225 Magna Carta issued in its definitive form

1248 Lombards defeat Frederick II

1263 Haakon of Norway defeated by the Scots at Largs


This might be fun, who knows?


Ken Speed

Hugh,

The ''Harrying of the North' 1069, did not effectively end Norse influence in the North. Personnel names still had Norse names even in the 12th and 13th Century, see Stantons 'The Free Peasantry of the Northern Danelaw' 1969. These shires had other such distinctive features - fragments of Danish speech and Danish placenames.

Even William paid Dane geld in 1070, the Danes also took York in 1075, and again 1085 . For furter reading I'd suggest 'The English Resistance' by Peter Rex for an overview of the decades after 1066.

Dave