Hello,
I am at best an enthusiast when it comes the WMA and rapier fencing. When I was a teenager I took up modern pentathlon and really enjoyed the fencing. Since then I have started collecting military edged weapons of the 18th and 19th Century. I am very keen to take up fencing again and after some introductory lessons I am now looking to buy my own rapier.
I was wondering whether anyone has gained any experience with the Arms & Armor German Rapier and Parrying Dagger and/or the Arms & Armor Musketeer Rapier and Dagger and would be so kind to share their views. I am also looking at the Darkwood products but so far I have chosen the two mentioned rapiers for functional as much as aesthetical reasons.
I really appreciate your help & all the best from London.
Peter
Hi Peter, Darkwood Armoury makes some really beautiful rapiers that is for sure. I myself am a huge fan and a constant customer of Arms & Armor, I also have two and working on a third sword from Albion Swords which is also top notch but they do not make rapiers.
Now to your questions and concerns, in regard to the German Rapier and the German Parrying Dagger. In November I bought the German Parrying Dagger for my wife from Kult of Athena which is under 18 miles from my house. Ryan had the German Parrying Dagger in stock because the customer who bought the German Rapier did not buy the dagger that goes with it.
I currently have the German Rapier on order with Arms & Armor for my wife "Gayle" and the rapier is entirely paid for including shipping. I also have the Italian Three Ring Rapier from Arms & Armor and that is one beautiful primarily thrusting rapier. Both my wife and I have handled the German Rapier at the Bristol Renaissance Faire which is on the border of Wisconsin and ILLinios, where there is an Arms & Armor store during the season.
The German Rapier is exquisite and beautiful in every detail, it is also I believe their lightest rapier being just less than 2 and a half pounds I believe is the weight. This is also primarily a thrusting rapier.
My wife, because of her up bringing and the selfish men in her life before she married me in April of 1991, she never got any expensive gifts, I am certainly not well off that's for sure, but I have done a lot to rectify these things for her. The reason I mention this is because a few months ago she said something that aroused the idea in my mind that she really would like to have the German Rapier. Well, it took several direct questions to get to the truth of the matter and once I found out, I went and bought that German Parrying Dagger that I knew was in stock at KoA and also called Craig at
Arms & Armor and put in the order for the German Rapier. It should be here within three weeks.
Both of us having wielded this particular rapier, I can assure you that it handles like a dream and it is very easy to aim and thrust, it is one of the shorter rapiers but this can also have it's advantages. I am no rapier or sword expert, I am a beginner in my third year of collecting swords, though a large collection, who has a solid background in karate having achieved black belt in October of 2004 from a very tough to satisfy instructor. That's another story but it's also what got me into swords, because just after attaining black belt, I had X-rays and a complete MRI series on my spine to see what in the heck was the chronic problem with my back. Wear and tear arthritis, 5 minor hernias, 2 in the cervical and 3 in the lumber.
Practicing with swords is a help to my situation, and the reason I wrote the short soap opera on my back problems and mention my rank in karate, was solely to illustrate "why" I practice with my swords and rapier a lot! I can never do impact sports again and I Love martial arts, also, as my orthopedic surgeon stated upon my asking him, he said that not only can you do sword play but it would be very beneficial to your back because of the physical dynamics that come into play when working with swords. He said it would be an excellent form of physical therapy for me.
So though I am no authority on swords or rapiers, I just know you would absolutely Love the German Rapier and as a matter of fact, my wife is quite excited about her forthcoming rapier :!:
I have never handled the Musketeer Rapier and therefore I do not know anything about it, although I can say with absolute confidence and personal knowledge that the swords and rapiers made by Arms & Armor are second to none in performance. Yes, they are a bit expensive but if you want a top notch rapier that you will have a hard time putting down once you pick it up, this is absolutely the way to go!
You also might want to Private Message myArmoury Member and one of the management staff "Bill Grandy" who is a rapier "Expert"! Now here is a man who can answer any question you could pose to him! Personally, I wish he lived near me because I would love to train under him!
Please feel free to Private Message me if you like, I will be more than happy to help you in any way I can, however, to get "Expert" advice, contact Bill Grandy :!:
It's really great to see you here at myArmoury, I am confident your going to love this website, which has done so much to help me! I can't even begin to describe how grateful I am that Nathan Robinson founded this website and that is the absolute truth of the matter!
Sincerely!
Bob
Now to your questions and concerns, in regard to the German Rapier and the German Parrying Dagger. In November I bought the German Parrying Dagger for my wife from Kult of Athena which is under 18 miles from my house. Ryan had the German Parrying Dagger in stock because the customer who bought the German Rapier did not buy the dagger that goes with it.
I currently have the German Rapier on order with Arms & Armor for my wife "Gayle" and the rapier is entirely paid for including shipping. I also have the Italian Three Ring Rapier from Arms & Armor and that is one beautiful primarily thrusting rapier. Both my wife and I have handled the German Rapier at the Bristol Renaissance Faire which is on the border of Wisconsin and ILLinios, where there is an Arms & Armor store during the season.
The German Rapier is exquisite and beautiful in every detail, it is also I believe their lightest rapier being just less than 2 and a half pounds I believe is the weight. This is also primarily a thrusting rapier.
My wife, because of her up bringing and the selfish men in her life before she married me in April of 1991, she never got any expensive gifts, I am certainly not well off that's for sure, but I have done a lot to rectify these things for her. The reason I mention this is because a few months ago she said something that aroused the idea in my mind that she really would like to have the German Rapier. Well, it took several direct questions to get to the truth of the matter and once I found out, I went and bought that German Parrying Dagger that I knew was in stock at KoA and also called Craig at
Arms & Armor and put in the order for the German Rapier. It should be here within three weeks.
Both of us having wielded this particular rapier, I can assure you that it handles like a dream and it is very easy to aim and thrust, it is one of the shorter rapiers but this can also have it's advantages. I am no rapier or sword expert, I am a beginner in my third year of collecting swords, though a large collection, who has a solid background in karate having achieved black belt in October of 2004 from a very tough to satisfy instructor. That's another story but it's also what got me into swords, because just after attaining black belt, I had X-rays and a complete MRI series on my spine to see what in the heck was the chronic problem with my back. Wear and tear arthritis, 5 minor hernias, 2 in the cervical and 3 in the lumber.
Practicing with swords is a help to my situation, and the reason I wrote the short soap opera on my back problems and mention my rank in karate, was solely to illustrate "why" I practice with my swords and rapier a lot! I can never do impact sports again and I Love martial arts, also, as my orthopedic surgeon stated upon my asking him, he said that not only can you do sword play but it would be very beneficial to your back because of the physical dynamics that come into play when working with swords. He said it would be an excellent form of physical therapy for me.
So though I am no authority on swords or rapiers, I just know you would absolutely Love the German Rapier and as a matter of fact, my wife is quite excited about her forthcoming rapier :!:
I have never handled the Musketeer Rapier and therefore I do not know anything about it, although I can say with absolute confidence and personal knowledge that the swords and rapiers made by Arms & Armor are second to none in performance. Yes, they are a bit expensive but if you want a top notch rapier that you will have a hard time putting down once you pick it up, this is absolutely the way to go!
You also might want to Private Message myArmoury Member and one of the management staff "Bill Grandy" who is a rapier "Expert"! Now here is a man who can answer any question you could pose to him! Personally, I wish he lived near me because I would love to train under him!
Please feel free to Private Message me if you like, I will be more than happy to help you in any way I can, however, to get "Expert" advice, contact Bill Grandy :!:
It's really great to see you here at myArmoury, I am confident your going to love this website, which has done so much to help me! I can't even begin to describe how grateful I am that Nathan Robinson founded this website and that is the absolute truth of the matter!
Sincerely!
Bob
Greetings Peter!
Welcome to the forums! I also own the A&A German rapier, and I simply love it. It is light, quick and beautiful. I wear it to renaissance faires primarily, but it is the sword I pick up when I noodle around with rapier play (I am no real fencer, BTW). As for the Musketeer rapier, it is substantially heavier in weight and feel, much more of a military type sword. I don't own one, but I have handled one at the Bristol Renaissance Faire in Wisconsin.
I don't own the matching dagger to the German rapier, instead preferring their 1580 parrying dagger (not all rapiers had a matching dagger). Good luck with your choice. You can't go wrong with Arms and Armor - Chris Poor and Craig Johnson are simply great to work with, and their products are amongst the best!
Sincerely,
Welcome to the forums! I also own the A&A German rapier, and I simply love it. It is light, quick and beautiful. I wear it to renaissance faires primarily, but it is the sword I pick up when I noodle around with rapier play (I am no real fencer, BTW). As for the Musketeer rapier, it is substantially heavier in weight and feel, much more of a military type sword. I don't own one, but I have handled one at the Bristol Renaissance Faire in Wisconsin.
I don't own the matching dagger to the German rapier, instead preferring their 1580 parrying dagger (not all rapiers had a matching dagger). Good luck with your choice. You can't go wrong with Arms and Armor - Chris Poor and Craig Johnson are simply great to work with, and their products are amongst the best!
Sincerely,
| Christopher Gregg wrote: |
| Greetings Peter!
I don't own the matching dagger to the German rapier, instead preferring their 1580 parrying dagger (not all rapiers had a matching dagger). Sincerely, |
Just to back that up I have also read that most people did not have daggers and rapiers en suite but rather had a mismatch. Having said that I will so I went so far as to get the A&A boys to make me a custom dagger to match my Bavarian Rapier and if I bought the German would also get the matching dagger... which reminds me I still need to get that Writhen Dagger... sigh... :)
Thank you all for the very helpful advice. It is always interesting to find out what brings people to WMA / rapier fencing.
I am fully aware that I have singled out two very different sets of weapons and as it is a difficult decision I will take my time to think about it but I am looking forward to hearing more views. With regard to the matching dagger, I must admit that this is rather a question of aesthetics. In addition, if I now start looking at daggers to buy separately I will get even more indecisive ;)
Have a great weekend,
Peter
I am fully aware that I have singled out two very different sets of weapons and as it is a difficult decision I will take my time to think about it but I am looking forward to hearing more views. With regard to the matching dagger, I must admit that this is rather a question of aesthetics. In addition, if I now start looking at daggers to buy separately I will get even more indecisive ;)
Have a great weekend,
Peter
Hello Peter,
If you are looking for a serious rapier simulator to fence with then the Arms and Armor Musketeer or any Darkwood product you choose would serve your purposes well. In my humble opinion the German Rapier would not make a good choice for WMA rapier fencing. My opinion has nothing to do with the construction or workmanship of the product because anything made by A &A seems to be stellar. It’s just that in my opinion the German rapier is far too fine and pretty to take to the salle and beat on. Believe me in if you are serious about WMA or are even thinking about getting serious your weapons will take abuse. Personally I would go with a plainer more robust model (like the musketeer) in favor of the pretty little pointy thing that is the German rapier. Now you will also have to bear in mind that this opinion is coming from a self professed Italian rapier thug who prefers to fence with a 42” heavy Darkwood blade.
You may have another idea in mind regarding how serious you wish to fence and you may only wish to occasionally dabble, but believe me if you spend the money on the German with a matching dagger and end up scaring the hell out of the hilt you probably will regret it. To me it’s like owning a BMW and having it get dinged up in a parking lot.
Just my opinion.
Jim Holczer
Student - Umbs School of Fence / Martinez Academy of Arms
If you are looking for a serious rapier simulator to fence with then the Arms and Armor Musketeer or any Darkwood product you choose would serve your purposes well. In my humble opinion the German Rapier would not make a good choice for WMA rapier fencing. My opinion has nothing to do with the construction or workmanship of the product because anything made by A &A seems to be stellar. It’s just that in my opinion the German rapier is far too fine and pretty to take to the salle and beat on. Believe me in if you are serious about WMA or are even thinking about getting serious your weapons will take abuse. Personally I would go with a plainer more robust model (like the musketeer) in favor of the pretty little pointy thing that is the German rapier. Now you will also have to bear in mind that this opinion is coming from a self professed Italian rapier thug who prefers to fence with a 42” heavy Darkwood blade.
You may have another idea in mind regarding how serious you wish to fence and you may only wish to occasionally dabble, but believe me if you spend the money on the German with a matching dagger and end up scaring the hell out of the hilt you probably will regret it. To me it’s like owning a BMW and having it get dinged up in a parking lot.
Just my opinion.
Jim Holczer
Student - Umbs School of Fence / Martinez Academy of Arms
| James Holczer wrote: |
| It’s just that in my opinion the German rapier is far too fine and pretty to take to the salle and beat on. Believe me in if you are serious about WMA or are even thinking about getting serious your weapons will take abuse. Personally I would go with a plainer more robust model (like the musketeer) in favor of the pretty little pointy thing that is the German rapier. |
I don't disagree at all, and I think you have excellent advice that would work best for most people. For myself, personally, I actually have a different philosophy. Years back I commissioned this A&A piece:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/custom923.html
It has a nail blade, and I have drilled and fenced with it for about four years, I think. It certainly is nowhere near as shiny as it is in that photo anymore. :) But I absolutely love that sword. It is one of the nicest handling and beautiful swords I own, and because of that I find myself wanting to practice with it all the time. To paraphrase someting Guy Windsor once said, the more you like your sword, the more you'll want to train with it.
Now, I don't think this works for everyone. I know a number of people have called me crazy for training with some of the very pretty swords that I use (and they really do get beaten up and covered in corrosion). I think for a lot of people this would cause more stress than joy when seeing their work of art become marred. But for me at least, I'm all for getting the sword that I like the most aesthetically as well as functionally, because I know I'm going to use it either way, and I may as well get the one that pleases me the most. :) Your mileage may vary.
Back to the original post: I've never handled the Musketeer rapier, but I have handled the German rapier. It's a really nice piece. It's a little short for my tastes, but it handled wonderfully, and is one of the more gorgeous production rapiers out there.
Peter, out of curiosity: Have you been taking rapier fencing lessons, or modern fencing (foil/epee/sabre)?
Wow, I am so glad that I posted this as it has resulted in a number of questions being raised I would not have thought about at this stage. As for Bill’s question, I learned modern sport fencing (foil/epee) for the modern pentathlon and so far only attended a couple of rapier lessons last year at a renaissance fair here in a UK which happened to be held in the same place I spent my holidays. I reckon the guys there were just enthusiasts with rudimentary knowledge themselves but I really enjoyed it. I wish my job would permit me to get serious about taking lessons right now but I won’t get anything done before Easter. The Custom Stibbert Museum Italian Rapier is a beauty and once I actually can commit to lessons and have improved my knowledge it would be great to commission such a piece. For now, the more regular rapiers will do the trick.
So "Your" the person who commissioned the Stibbert Rapier :!: I have been gawking at that rapier for a couple of years now, and in my opinion it's one of the most beautiful rapiers I have ever laid eyes on! Congratulations on a "Classic"!
Man that is one gorgeous rapier!
Bob
Man that is one gorgeous rapier!
Bob
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