hello people ,

i have this sword from one of my friend , he say to me this is very ols sword like 1640 or something , i try to find over internet information but i not succed .

if anyone can help me with some information...............

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Could be a Khyber knife ( sword )

http://www.agrussell.com/knife_information/kn...ary/k.html
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Good-Indo-Persian-Khybe...dZViewItem

At least from what I can see in the pics it looks like it could be a Khyber knife or something else of similar design.

It looks like a Rugger: a long knife popular in south german areas. It could be as old as first half of 16th C, but that is difficult to say. At least I cannot date it exactly. Perhaps there are others here that could.
A dating feature can be the ferrule/ collar where the blade meets th grip. These change shape over time. The Rugger is related to the Hauswehr and Bauernwehr knife types.
This is one of the shapes the Late meadieval weapon-knife can take.

I do not think it is a Khyber knife.

hello people ,

thankyou for the information but still i haven`t found over the internet some specifications about this sword , and even google cand`t help me :(

i`m so sad :\

some informations about the sword :

the sword was found during excavations in Poiana Brasov - Romania and was restaured by a master blacksmith. it was derusted and received an antler handle , the sword was treated with a special lacquer to prevent it from rusting. I want to sell it so I'm eager to find out more details about the sword, its age determination, its probable users ( whether it's an army sword).

Here are examples of these knives from the Swiss Landesmuseum in Zürich

I attach three Rugger. Note the long narrow pointy blade and simple hilt. Components can vary a little, but they are all mounted by basically the same principles: pomel cap and two sturdy plates or bars forming the collar towards the blade. My impression is that later examples has a longer "neck" on this collar. There is normally also a "nagel" or nuckle bar-lug.
The blade can be thick in the spine and the cross section is triangular. It seems some examples are thinner and slightly wider. Some have a narrow fuller or grove along the back.

I also attach two images of knives that may be called Hauswehr or bauernwehr. I am under the impression that the more ornate types usually are called Bauernwehr, but that the two names are interchangeable. They denote sturdy knives that can duble as weapons, but are carried as big utility knives. Quite like bowie knives. They commonly came in scabbard with by-knives and steels. (This seems to have been the case for Ruggers as well)

In Swedish medieval texts a knife type weapon is sometimes named as a "Ryting". I think that a big personal knife like the Rugger or a big version of the Bauernwher is meant. I don´t know for sure, however.

I hope some one else would post on this and confirm or provide more detailed info. The terms and names for these knives are not always clear in litterature. The Rugger seems to be quite distinct from the Hauswehr/auernwehr knives hovever.
A Rugger has a length like that of a short sword and is always pretty pointy.
The bauernwehr are wider in proportion and shorter. They often but not always have a clip point and are less dagger like in outline.

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A Bauernwehr, 16th C. Length 32 cm, width 3,7 cm.

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A Hauswehr (?), first half 16th C. Length 33,5 cm, width 3,2 cm

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A Rugger, second half 15th C. Length 56,5 cm, width 3 cm. [ Download ]

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Another Rugger, about 1500. Length (broken) 56,5 cm, width 6 cm.
(I wonder if this one might not actually qualify as a Grossemesser of the sword type?) [ Download ]

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A third Rugger, first half 16th C. Length67,8 cm, width 4,1 cm. [ Download ]

new informations ?

:idea: :cry:

A very curious feature is the fuller bifurcating at the beginning of the blade.

Look well at this pic. Quite puzzling, isn't it?

http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im000609lf1.jpg

On the first look I would say it is a kind of Bauernwehr (it looks quite like one in the collection of a friend of mine; maybe I manage to take some pictures and post them).

But the location it was found isn't exactly Southern Germany *g*. Although there were many 'German' cities in Transylvania during that time, which could explain the similar design, it could also be an Hungarian or even Turkish influenced weapon.

On the other hand: most weapon type classifications were established by modern researchers and you can't expect every antique weapon to fit into them.
A war knife is a down-to-earth design that appears in many cultures. So maybe you weapon is just one of many local types.

Hi Rechinul,

I can't tell for sure from the photo's, but, it looks like a shortened backsword blade. This style with a single posterior fuller was indeed seen from the 17th to 19th centuries, usually manufactered in Solingen. Is there any marks of any kind? I have posted a English baskethilt with a similar complete blade here; http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=twysden .

Nice find.
Jeff

I am personally inclined to think it is a Khyber knife, there are a lot of these things around and their age ranges from the 18th century right up to the present:

I had a look on the Oriental Arms website and I found about half a dozen, I've selected a few to show here, click on the links please:

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=937
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2600
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1431
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=130

How it came to be buried in Rumania is another matter...

Hi Hisham,

Almost by definition the Khyber knife has a raised back edge so that in cross section the blade makes a "T". I can't tell from the pictures, but this blade seem to have a posterior fuller rather than the T spine? The grip bolster is similar though. Is it original or part of the "handle" replacement?. I will attach one of my khybers for comparison.
Rechinul, better pictures may help clear this up.

All the best
Jeff

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I don't believe it is a khyber either. Khybers tend to have a hilt that is in line with the extreme back of the blade. The tang on the blade in question is too close to the middle of the blade.

My money is on a 17th/ early 18th century hunting sword. I have seen several with similarly shaped blades, with and without fullers. The bolster and pommel cap are consistent with extant examples, including this one I found in the myArmoury album.

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I'm positive I see a T spine, for what it's worth. 100%. I know zilch about khyber/rugger/hunting swords but it certainly has the T spine.

And on closer scrutiny, the hilt is closer to the T spine than the edge. Slightly, but unmistakable as well.

hello

i will post the pictures in maximum 2 hours , sorry for waiting , i have`n been home in the last week :(