Hello again, myArmoury. My random question if the moment deals with Coats of Plate. When did they appear? Were they worn over chainmail or was chainmail attached like with a brigadine. Effectiveness? Anyone know how of any tutorials on how to make them? And the thing really picking my brain, were they ever ornate?


Thanks for your help and with putting up with the various forum trolls like myself!

So in somewhat answering my own question... this link, http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/wisby_cop/

The coat of plates evolved from the armoured surcoat.
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8757

At it's apperance in the mid 13th century, the Coat of plates was more or less an acessory to otherwise fully equipped knights; It cost about the same as a hauberk, and provide a lot less coverage. Thus one would naturally by the hauberk if one only could aford one of them.
Later, they became cheaper and more widespread, especially after propper breastplates became available, until they where completely phased out by munitions grade plate.
Protection wise, they would be quite effective for the small area covered, and give a protection as per the thickness of the plate.
Coverage is however rather marginal; Direct hits in the torso that would penetrate the mail and arming coat is mostly limited to twohanded spear and lance hits. But it would be a definite advantage for a mounted knight, who would have a high chance of being targeted by such attacks.

Dan Howard wrote:

The coat of plates evolved from the armoured surcoat. http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8757

Got any desicsive sources for this?

Plate chest defences that are worn under the surcote or mail is known from litterary sources from the mid 13th century, the same time armoured surcotes start showing up.
However, the armoured surcote is for natural reasons the first to appear in pictoral evidence, because more or less all 13th century wore surcotes. When these are no longer as universal, we start seeing Coats of Plate without skirts.

IMHO a armoured surcote is simply a coat of plates with skirts, or an "apron", as in the case of St. Maurice. There is no difference in counstruction between the armoured surcote worn by Maurice and the Coates of Plate found at Visby except the length of the textile cover.

As usual it comes back to semantics. What defines a coat of plates and what distinguishes it from the armoured surcoat? Is it the cut of the garment or is it the alignment of the plates? Maurice's armour consists of a surcoat but the plates attached to it are aligned like later coats of plates. IMO an armoured surcoat is a subset of the coat of plates.