Dave,

The bottom few pictures in Bjorn Hellqvist's post from the Museum of Denmark... although on a second look I'm not sure now *wonders idly if I've just made an absolute goat of myself ;)*

Quote:

I'm told that horse urine is good for softening leather, but I've never tried it.

I can actually confirm this one. :) It works on saddles, anyhow. But you need to condition the leather fairly thoroughly after that. Horse wee doesn't condition it, but it does soften it enough that you can use other preparations on it wthout making, say, any cracking worse. I have to admit I just tend to go with the preparations available commercially in preference, for some weird reason ;) Standing under/behind a horse to collect doesn't really appeal.... hehe.

I was wondering if beeswax would have been used historically, because It doesn't, you know... soak in, I combine it with turps for that for saddles, etc. Makes them a bit slippery, though, if in wrong proportion. I guess grips would be different. :)

Peter-

Do you have any idea of the typical thickness of the bronze fittings in the hilt, ie., pommel and guard?

Also, how were they attached to the same above?

One more question-were the fittings flush or recessed in the organic material

thanks,

dave

[/quote]
I guess you are referring to the sword from British museum with bronze hilt fittings an ribbed bronze grip, right?

I think there was a wide use of cutlers rezin to help keep the various parts of the hilt together. The riveting of the tang, carefull fitting of individual parts, riveting of metal mounts and (hot setting?) rezin will combine to make a very strong and secure fit.
It may seem confusing that sword hilts were made by organic material and of many parts. .[/quote]

Hi Peter-

Yes thats the one I'm asking about.

One other question, when you say "riveting of the metal mounts", are we talking about nails or actual rivets? I'm a bit
confused on this matter.

thanks,

dave

Hi all,

I lifted these from another thread where they were kindly posted by Nathan Bell.

The Lisnacrogher sword (the shorter of the swords-- top pic) is fantastic-- any educated guesses as to what the pommel would have looked like on this?

The Ballinderry sword (La Tene, not Viking :) ) is also quite interesting to me, but I am wondering if anyone has a full length shot of it? (It is the double fullered sword grouped with other finds).

Does anyone know which museum(s) these are in?

Cheers,

David

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WOW! First time I've seen actual photos and not line drawings of those swords ( bottom pic ). I've a keen interest in Irish swords from the first century up to the Viking era. Would love to see more work done concerning these Dark Age weapons of the "Celtic Fringe". To Peter: is this the blade your thinking of emulating ( I was just talking to Mike S. about this today ), the double fuller you mentioned? :)

B.Stark wrote:

Quote:

WOW! First time I've seen actual photos and not line drawings of those swords ( bottom pic ). I've a keen interest in Irish swords from the first century up to the Viking era. Would love to see more work done concerning these Dark Age weapons of the "Celtic Fringe". To Peter: is this the blade your thinking of emulating ( I was just talking to Mike S. about this today ), the double fuller you mentioned?

Hi Mike,

I have to admit I have been wondering the same, although either of the two main swords would do for me (as long as the Lisnacrogher had a bit more length to it). Although I won't restrict myself to Irish swords, I am hoping to build up a collection that is representative of swords (and some other weapons) from the Bronze Age through to the Late Medieval. If the Albion NG La Tene fits into the Irish Iron Age bracket I will be more than satisfied (and then, of course there are the ring-hilts and the Clontarf).

Regards,

David

Nathan Bell wrote:

Quote:

But I find that the Irish "shorties", reconstructed in the right size brackets have a charm of their own! :

You realise you can't just put a pic like that up without a bit of explanation :) Is it fair to assume that this is the fruit of your ponderings and that you finally got a custom copy of the Lisnacrogher? I can't quite make out the hiltwork very clearly. Would it be possible to get a closer and brighter shot?

Regards,

David

Hi Nathan, thanks for that-- I look forward to seeing your ideas made flesh (or iron, bronze, and wood as the case may be) some day.

You wrote:

Quote:

The Irish Arms piece is, however, a good blade for the price, and gives a nice idea of how these would have handled, which lends to more ideas about potential fightings styles of the Irish from the BA to the Early Christian era using these wicked little short blades....

While Viking weapons would have been common amongst the Irish by 1014, I have often wondered if Brian Boru's son used the traditional short Irish swords in the Battle of Clontarf. The Annals desribe Murchad (or Murrough) as fighting with a sword in each hand-- I suppose he may have had a Viking blade in one hand and an Irish in the other, or two Irish (or, for that matter two Viking blades-- who really knows?). With regard to potential fighting styles, it strikes me that two Irish blades could be used quite effectively. I wonder if Murchad's tecnique was his own or part of a tradition passed down to him.

Having said that, the Tain and other epics tend to mention spear, sword and shield. I guess the truth is bound to be elusive.

David

Nathan Bell wrote:

Quote:

I also believe that the proposed reconstruction of the hilt, that is seen reproduced in Rynne and so many articles is a bit off.

Nathan,

Where can one find Rynne's work? I am aware of his "Calssification of pre-viking Irish Iron Swords" but have never seen it anywhere--nor can I find anything else by him, yet he seems like someone I would enjoy reading.

Quote:

... which lends to more ideas about potential fightings styles of the Irish from the BA to the Early Christian era using these wicked little short blades....

Could you elaborate on that a bit? After having thought about it a bit I've become quite curious as to how the fighting styles may have developed around these blades. The Irish were obviousy quite happy with their fencing styles as their was no great technological revolution in sword making until the Viking Era. One could be tempted to draw on the Roman example (gladius and shield) but everything militates against that (although some have tried to draw connections between the Laigin and Romano British or Roman trained Irish warbands... don't know about that).

Where the Romans fought as units with gladius and scutum, the Irish fought in bands made up of individuals-- the heroic idealism that one finds in Homer was very much alive for the Irish. Their swords were small, and so were their shields (apparently). It seems likely, then, that the fighting styles of the Irish would have been quite different-- but having said that I cannot guess what it may have looked like.

I am assuming the Irish had likely developed their martial skills into an art form given both their propensity for warfare and the lack of development seen in their swords (rather than the opposite assumption-- that they simply brawled with pointy objects in hand). Any ideas would be of great interest.

Cheers once again,

David

Hi Nathan,

I just wanted to thank you for your great responses. I'll keep an eye out for the articles-- couldn't find them anywhere online (to buy). I suppose I may just not know where to look. Anyway, thanks again.

Yours,

David

Hi all,

Archeologists have recently discovered an Iron Age burial in Alloa, Scotland. The cyst contained the remains of a young man-- probably around thirty years old, along with a spear, shield, and sword. The sword is described as being arond 24" long, making it the longest iron age sword found in Scotland (or so the article says).

Does anyone have any more information on this sword? I've tried to hunt down some photos, but have had no success. For those who are interested, the article can be found at the bottom of this post.

Cheers,

David



http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=428762004