I visited the Wallace Collection last week and just wanted to share some notes and observations (photos allowed only with special reservations, and I couldn't get an appointment before returning to the U.S.) See Chad Arnow's Visitor's Experience article for more information about the WC: http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_visit_wallace.html
I wasn't the only person fogging up the glass in the Wallace Collections European arms rooms. I didn't so much run into Peter Johnsson as run around him. We both were racing the clock so I didn't introduce myself. He liberated a couple of swords from their cabinet as I looked on, so I got to see a new angle on one magnificent weapon in particular. I won't reveal the subject of PJ's research in case he wants to keep that under wraps, but I will note that the sword in question can be seen elsewhere on this site. With PJ and his prizes departed for the basement, I turned back to observing, sketching and taking notes, paying special attention to pieces reproduced by Windlass Steelcrafts in recent years. The notes below refer to three such pieces.
At least three current MRL items correspond to items in the Wallace Collection. These are the German Bastard Sword (Wallace Accession #A477,) German Hunting Saber (A716) and Italian Cut and Thrust Sword (A550).
A477
See the photos of the Windlass/MRL repro at Reliks.com ( http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2112 ).
As often happens, I was enthusiastic about the hilt of MRL's German Bastard Sword but less so about its hexagonal blade. I knew the original's stats from this thread: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...light=a477
The bit about the "shallow hollow" convinced me that the blade of the original would be radically different from that of the repro. I was pleasantly surprised to find that hollow really is quite shallow, and that the overall hexagonal shape of the upper blade and taper to lozenge section is similar to that of the repro. I saw similar German swords of the same period with various forms of blades, so the repro's blade would be plausible in any case. The bottom riser of the grip is slightly higher than that of the repro. The original's side rings are very slightly different, swelling symmetrcially at their center, with the decorative vertical line created by filing two channels rather than by casting or filing the entire surface of the ring. The bottom of the original's quillon block of does not feature the repro's "v" shaped projection toward the tip of the blade. When I'm down to this level of comparisonI know that the German Bastard Sword is one of Windlass/MRL's better offerings of recent years.
I'm much more inclined to buy the repro after seeing the original. In fact, I plan to purchase one in the next year.
A716
This weapon/reproduction is discussed here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...light=a716
I can add that the pommel of the original is vertically concave, thin overall and quite thin at its top edge, where it appears to be less than .25" thick. As one can see in the photos in the thread referenced above, the blade is noticeably broader than that of the reproduction, and that makes the repro much less appealing to me, in spite of its welcome 16th c. hanger hilt. As usual, MRL's catalog copy is off the mark. The original is 16th c., with a much later engraving on the pommel.
It pains me to say it, but I'm less inclined to buy the repro after seeing the original. It would be a good candidate for a replacement blade. In fact, MRL offers a few other weapons whose blades would be much more appropriate for this piece (explain the logic of that one).
A550
When MRL first introduced its Italian Cut and Thrust Sword (http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/eCat/swords_and_knive/historical/swords/italian_cut_and_thrust.aspx ) I thought the hilt looked great but I didn't care for the blade. I was surprised to see just how faithful the repro is to the original. The Wallace Collection's weapon is 1540-1550, with a chiseled hilt, reeded grip with wire overwrap and unusual blade. Like that of the repro, the blade of the original has a ricasso of approx. 2" and a tapering blade of hexagonal section, with the flat rib in the center of the blade decreasing in width with the taper. The sloping flats of the blade are hollow ground. It isn't clear if the repro's blade includes this important detail, but it might.
I'm much more inclined to buy the repro after seeing the original.
Other observations:
The hafts of the fighting halberds I saw tapered strongly toward their bases, down to about .75". The hafts of the polaxes I examined did not taper significantly.
The late maces and late hammer I saw were massive—much larger than I had imagined them to be.
Although photography is very tightly controlled and forbidden without special permission, appointment and guide, many of the Wallace Collections arms arms and armour have been published over the years. To walk through the European rooms is to revisit your favorite books on the subject. I lost count of the number of times I thought, "Hey, there's that...."
Go there, and don't miss the Museum of London, either.
Hey Sean!
Ha! So that was you!
I recognized a fellow student, but I had no idea that it was you who was taking notes amd looking carefully on the side views of pommels and edges.
Whish you had said hi, as I was buzzing around.
I was there for the Armour Research Conference held over the weekend at the Wallace Collection. You did not participate, did you?
It is alwyas nice to get an opportunity to revisit the Wallace Collection. Tobias Capwell was generous with his time letting me spend some time with a couple of the swords. I am glad to hear you had a rewarding visit as well.
-Next time, we shall have to visit a pub together after the museum close. Agreed?
Ha! So that was you!
I recognized a fellow student, but I had no idea that it was you who was taking notes amd looking carefully on the side views of pommels and edges.
Whish you had said hi, as I was buzzing around.
I was there for the Armour Research Conference held over the weekend at the Wallace Collection. You did not participate, did you?
It is alwyas nice to get an opportunity to revisit the Wallace Collection. Tobias Capwell was generous with his time letting me spend some time with a couple of the swords. I am glad to hear you had a rewarding visit as well.
-Next time, we shall have to visit a pub together after the museum close. Agreed?
| Peter Johnsson wrote: |
| Hey Sean!
Ha! So that was you! I recognized a fellow student, but I had no idea that it was you who was taking notes amd looking carefully on the side views of pommels and edges. Whish you had said hi, as I was buzzing around. I was there for the Armour Research Conference held over the weekend at the Wallace Collection. You did not participate, did you? It is alwyas nice to get an opportunity to revisit the Wallace Collection. Tobias Capwell was generous with his time letting me spend some time with a couple of the swords. I am glad to hear you had a rewarding visit as well. -Next time, we shall have to visit a pub together after the museum close. Agreed? |
I was sorely tempted to say hello, but you seemed to have your hands full trying to get those swords. I was impressed that you were able to arrange it even though the research room was closed, and I was impressed that Capwell was willing to find a way to make it happen for you. It was great to be able to look at one of your choices from the pommel end and see the rippling of the blade's surface and the slight curvature of the blade. Those things just aren't visible in a display case.
I was racing the clock, as I had to meet my wife at noon. We were attending a Roman archaeology conference across town at University College, London.
Thank you for the information on the provenance of the MRL Italian Cut and Thrust. A couple of months ago, I purchased one -- it was my first reproduction sword. I was quite pleased with the workmanship, but uncertain of its authenticity and could only guess at the date of manufacture of the original (based on somewhat similar swords I found through research). I wondered about the location of the original, if there was one. Your report from the Wallace Collection answers those questions and makes me feel pretty good about the purchase. I believe it has been discontinued by MRL, but is still available from independent vendors.
| Alan H. Weller wrote: |
| Thank you for the information on the provenance of the MRL Italian Cut and Thrust. A couple of months ago, I purchased one -- it was my first reproduction sword. I was quite pleased with the workmanship, but uncertain of its authenticity and could only guess at the date of manufacture of the original (based on somewhat similar swords I found through research). I wondered about the location of the original, if there was one. Your report from the Wallace Collection answers those questions and makes me feel pretty good about the purchase. I believe it has been discontinued by MRL, but is still available from independent vendors. |
And now that I know the accession number, I drop it into Google and...presto! All the vital stats for A550!
http://www.musketeer.org/rapiers/wallace.htm
This should allow you to do a more detailed comparison. Also, if you ask nicely the WC folks might be willing to send you a JPEG of A550.
To be honest i find the Wallace collection a frustrating experience. Don't misunderstand, I love the place and have visited several times, I'm planning to go there this weekend (if my wife lets me). But the no photos thing does drive me up the wall. I wish I could learn how to sketch really well, really fast. :D
I know a lot of their stuff has been published in countless books over the decades, but the pictures are usually small, black and white, and not of things that I find really interesting. I would cheerfully kill for a a catalogue of the Wallace collection, illustrated with big, high quality colour photos. You know, something like David Alexander's catalogue of the Khalili Collection or Donald LaRocca's catalogue of the "Warriors of the Himalayas" exhibition. :)
I know a lot of their stuff has been published in countless books over the decades, but the pictures are usually small, black and white, and not of things that I find really interesting. I would cheerfully kill for a a catalogue of the Wallace collection, illustrated with big, high quality colour photos. You know, something like David Alexander's catalogue of the Khalili Collection or Donald LaRocca's catalogue of the "Warriors of the Himalayas" exhibition. :)
| Hisham Gaballa wrote: |
| To be honest i find the Wallace collection a frustrating experience. Don't misunderstand, I love the place and have visited several times, I'm planning to go there this weekend (if my wife lets me). But the no photos thing does drive me up the wall. I wish I could learn how to sketch really well, really fast. :D
I know a lot of their stuff has been published in countless books over the decades, but the pictures are usually small, black and white, and not of things that I find really interesting. I would cheerfully kill for a a catalogue of the Wallace collection, illustrated with big, high quality colour photos. You know, something like David Alexander's catalogue of the Khalili Collection or Donald LaRocca's catalogue of the "Warriors of the Himalayas" exhibition. :) |
One of the staff informed my father that there's a "new director" (of what, I don't know) who's hoping to photograph and publish the entire arms and armour collection over the next decade or so.
| Sean Flynt wrote: |
| One of the staff informed my father that there's a "new director" (of what, I don't know) who's hoping to photograph and publish the entire arms and armour collection over the next decade or so. |
I know a couple of people who made the Armour Research Society conference, and apparently this project is already underway, and expected to be completed by the end of the year. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
| Matthew K. Shea wrote: |
|
I know a couple of people who made the Armour Research Society conference, and apparently this project is already underway, and expected to be completed by the end of the year. Let's keep our fingers crossed. |
That's great news!
| Sean Flynt wrote: |
| One of the staff informed my father that there's a "new director" (of what, I don't know) who's hoping to photograph and publish the entire arms and armour collection over the next decade or so. |
I heard someone mention this on the vikingsword.com forum back in September 2005. I never heard anything else, so I assumed that the project had died a death.
Here is the mention:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1173
(You'll need to scroll down to the last 3 or 4 posts.)
Last edited by Hisham Gaballa on Thu 05 Apr, 2007 9:51 am; edited 2 times in total
One could hope. I was mildy upset by the fact they have such a collection and a no pictures rule then keep saying wait till the gift shop.... where there are no photos.....
Do keep us posted,
RPM
Do keep us posted,
RPM
I emailed the Wallace Collection. about obtaining a photo of a sword.
If in stock, an 8 x 10 color print of a selected sword from the Wallace Collection costs 20 pounds, a black and white print 15 pounds, and a slide 5 pounds. If not in stock, the cost is more. VAT is another 17.5%. Postage and Handling to America is another 6 pounds.
So, a color print of a selected sword from the Wallace Collection would be 20 pounds plus 3.5 pounds for VAT plus 6 pounds for shipping , totalling 29.5 pounds. I think all of that adds up to somewhere around $58.00.
If in stock, an 8 x 10 color print of a selected sword from the Wallace Collection costs 20 pounds, a black and white print 15 pounds, and a slide 5 pounds. If not in stock, the cost is more. VAT is another 17.5%. Postage and Handling to America is another 6 pounds.
So, a color print of a selected sword from the Wallace Collection would be 20 pounds plus 3.5 pounds for VAT plus 6 pounds for shipping , totalling 29.5 pounds. I think all of that adds up to somewhere around $58.00.
| Sean Flynt wrote: | ||
That's great news! |
Yeah, Toby Capwell mentioned that 2/3 of the principal photography is done including several views of each piece including inside! The plan might be to make some kind of DVD as an accessory to the catalogue. The problem will be finding an investor to publish such a mammoth undertaking. It won't be a coffee table book, I suspect. This is all speculation though. The Wallace Collection hasn't announced anything officially as I understood it.
In the meantime, buy Toby's new book on the arms and armour at the Glasgow museums out at the end of April. It has been announced at a mere 9.95 GBP. I saw his preview copy. Its damned spiffy! Lots of pictures of him arming in that deadly black and gold garniture MacPherson made for him. Wow! :eek: Strong sales of this book will help the Wallace Collection pitch publishers to produce a very important and useful update to their catalogues.
Cheers!
Kel
| Randall Moffett wrote: |
| One could hope. I was mildy upset by the fact they have such a collection and a no pictures rule then keep saying wait till the gift shop.... where there are no photos.....
Do keep us posted, RPM |
Just write in advance and ask permission to photograph for research purposes. Most museums have some sort of arrangement available provided you sign a release not to publish or distribute your reference photos. Museums have these rules to stop the disposable camera toting tourists from disturbing everyone else in the galleries. (And to protect light sensitive artifacts, obviously.) It isn't impossible to photograph arms and armour in most museums. Look at the absolutely stunning photo galleries Manoucher is sharing with the community!
Kel
| Alan H. Weller wrote: |
| I emailed the Wallace Collection. about obtaining a photo of a sword.
If in stock, an 8 x 10 color print of a selected sword from the Wallace Collection costs 20 pounds, a black and white print 15 pounds, and a slide 5 pounds. If not in stock, the cost is more. VAT is another 17.5%. Postage and Handling to America is another 6 pounds. So, a color print of a selected sword from the Wallace Collection would be 20 pounds plus 3.5 pounds for VAT plus 6 pounds for shipping , totalling 29.5 pounds. I think all of that adds up to somewhere around $58.00. |
Yeah, the V&A quoted similar prices for some furniture research I was doing. This kind of stuff is expensive to produce and print. They don't keep a stock pile of photos of every artifact on hand for convenient sale. Someone has to dig up the reference files, send out the image to be printed, invoice and pack it up plus someone else has to administer the process. Order a poster of your favourite musical group and see what that costs. :lol:
In all, its cheaper than a trip to London to visit four museums and find that two of them had closed their medieval exhibits for renovation. :cry: Bugger.
Kel,
What is Toby Capwell's book called? I am up for a copy at that price!
Yeah I did not mind the no pictures policy really. It was that everyone said it was because they had pictures in the gift shop..... and there was not one.
If I had been planning more in advance I would have contacted them for pictures but the last time there it was a side venture after the BL.
Is not Toby Capwell and David Edge now at the Wallace?
I would like to see this mega book.....
RPM
What is Toby Capwell's book called? I am up for a copy at that price!
Yeah I did not mind the no pictures policy really. It was that everyone said it was because they had pictures in the gift shop..... and there was not one.
If I had been planning more in advance I would have contacted them for pictures but the last time there it was a side venture after the BL.
Is not Toby Capwell and David Edge now at the Wallace?
I would like to see this mega book.....
RPM
Sean,
I have been very interested in MRL's Italian C&T, French C&T, and the English C&T. Thanks for the information. I very much like some of the higher end Albion and A&A swords, but the MRL's are much more in my price range given the 3 small children I have.
Do you have any additional information on their English Cut & Thrust Sword? I noticed recently its on closeout and was considering grabbing it while it was on sale.
Thanks !
I have been very interested in MRL's Italian C&T, French C&T, and the English C&T. Thanks for the information. I very much like some of the higher end Albion and A&A swords, but the MRL's are much more in my price range given the 3 small children I have.
Do you have any additional information on their English Cut & Thrust Sword? I noticed recently its on closeout and was considering grabbing it while it was on sale.
Thanks !
Hello All,
I am sorry I missed the study group at the Wallace, but I was there last Month and was given a fantastic tour by Dr. Capwell.
I was told not to miss the collection at the Wallace by Craig Johnson of A&A as well as Vince Evans and I was amazed at what I saw. If you have even a passing interest in arms and armor and happen to be in London..and do not get the The Wallace...the I have little sympathy for you.
I had the dubious honor to travel to India with Drs. Toby Capwell, David Edge and Alan Williams from the Wallace (along with curators from the V&A,British Museum and Royal Armouries and the author Robert Elgood and Wallis&Wallis Auction house appraiser J. Barrett and Prof Ann Feuerbach of crucible steel fame). Let me tell you there was not a clinker in the bunch (to use a blacksmithing term). I say dubious because they are...to the last one...a tirelessly dedicated lot while I am simply a short hairy blacksmith looking for a thrill.
I am looking forward to Capwell's book and the CD of the collection (which is still in the works). Once the D is available we will have better photos of the pieces than we could take ourselves.
Ric
Attachment: 33.94 KB
I am sorry I missed the study group at the Wallace, but I was there last Month and was given a fantastic tour by Dr. Capwell.
I was told not to miss the collection at the Wallace by Craig Johnson of A&A as well as Vince Evans and I was amazed at what I saw. If you have even a passing interest in arms and armor and happen to be in London..and do not get the The Wallace...the I have little sympathy for you.
I had the dubious honor to travel to India with Drs. Toby Capwell, David Edge and Alan Williams from the Wallace (along with curators from the V&A,British Museum and Royal Armouries and the author Robert Elgood and Wallis&Wallis Auction house appraiser J. Barrett and Prof Ann Feuerbach of crucible steel fame). Let me tell you there was not a clinker in the bunch (to use a blacksmithing term). I say dubious because they are...to the last one...a tirelessly dedicated lot while I am simply a short hairy blacksmith looking for a thrill.
I am looking forward to Capwell's book and the CD of the collection (which is still in the works). Once the D is available we will have better photos of the pieces than we could take ourselves.
Ric
Attachment: 33.94 KB| Kel Rekuta wrote: |
| ... The plan might be to make some kind of DVD as an accessory to the catalogue. The problem will be finding an investor to publish such a mammoth undertaking. It won't be a coffee table book, I suspect. This is all speculation though. The Wallace Collection hasn't announced anything officially as I understood it.... |
I hope that they do go ahead to publish the photos on DVD. In fact, perhaps they could publish the entire catalog on DVD. That should be a lot more economical than publishing a hard-copy book.
I think this photo in the myArmoury.com albums shows the orginal Wallace Collection weapon on which MRL based its "Italian Cut & Thrust" sword, mentioned above:
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....mp;pos=269
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....mp;pos=269
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