Thanks for your thoughts everyone; this interesting sword is getting more interesting.

It i early here, but I will post up my drawing of the sword and you can all make of it what you will.

From memory the blade is 50mm wide and does not show any signs of (very) extensive sharpening. As regards the tip and length, I had a lot to take in in a short time, but it didn't obviously strike me as having been shortened, though a few cm up from the tip there was a weld flaw in the material running along a lamination. Not big and not terminal.

The COG was around 2cm in front of the guard.

I will post further up later today.

Tod

Just to pop my one groat's worth on this:

Firstly, you jammy, jammy git. :D
I'm envious of you getting to make this one, and really look forward to the result... I'll be keeping an eye out on this.

I'm in absolute agreement with Peter about it being shortened, and having done some poking at the sword myself, and knowing someone who had a (far cruder) reproduction made, I'm pretty certain that the blade has been shortened, at the very least there's an inch or two missing from the tip, and perhaps a lot more.

one thing I'd like to try to do (in my non-existent time), is to try to look at the proportions, as they would've been if it were a fighting weapon, that's had the tang shortened. That's something which the person I know who tried it kept coming back to, feeling that the hilt had been truncated, I gather. Conversely, the whole CoG point of it just now doesnt encourge me in that regard - if it were longer, the blade would've had to be lengthened a lot to avoid it just being absolutely awful in the hand.

the other thing that comes to mind though is that the cross-sectional thickness is very reminiscent of the fairly contemporary sword of Sigismund, in York City Hall - that thing handles with all the agility of a 3-legged hippo too, and has a similar thickness, and equally overweight pommel.

Again James, some interesting thoughts.

I did not consider that the tang could have been shortened, I will look again.

On other matters, a quick trip to the Emergency Department and a few stitches in my hand later, and you will have to wait for the trace and dimensions.

The plus side is that I have got a raft of wax carving to do and that is nice and clean.

Tod

One thing that keeps jarring me is that the sword does not look "cruelly ground down".
It seems to be a sword with original surface. Is this a trick?
How original is the blade?
Hmmm?

Peter Johnson wrote

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One thing that keeps jarring me is that the sword does not look "cruelly ground down". It seems to be a sword with original surface. Is this a trick? How original is the blade? Hmmm?

The blade was notably thick as I said and maintained that heavy section for a long way and so one may think that this would indicate that the blade was originally significantly longer, however bar a cm or two off the point, the blade did not look messed about with. The lines were clean but not perfect, in that medieval swords often (usually?) had wandering central spines and non-straight edges and this was no different, but not crude and not visually re-profiled.

The patina of the blade was good and as far as I could tell redolent of an old blade that was well looked after. The makers marks were there, though not strong and not that distinct and certainly looked medieval, and not ground out or diminished by grinding. Near the tip there were distinct folding flaws in the steel.

Personally I would say that this blade may have been changed, but not that much and not that cruelly. I wonder what they saw or thought they saw? Of course the appearance of patina changes over time and this was written 150 years ago when the grip was green....whilst it is now degraded and brown.

The thought of a shortened grip was interesting and a longer grip combined with this blade could make for a short but powerful hand and a half.

Tod

I have taken some not great pictures of my drawing and there should be enough information for you to scale it and tile it.

I have uploaded in low res and if this does not come out I will have to find somewhere to stash a hi res copy.


Tod

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Tod, thank you so much for this further info on this fascinating sword.
I really appreciate it.

I do wonder about the longer grip, however. The point of balance is already extremely close to the guard. 2 cm? That is pretty extreme. I do not think I have ever come across something like that.
If the grip is lengthened the point of balance might rest *inside* the grip. It would no longer balance like a sword.

I trust your impression and also think the blade looks original with its patina and the dimensions together suggesting that it cannot hardly have been severely ground in the part that now survives.

I canot shake the feeling that something is off, with the point of balance and its proportions. It is a very odd sword!
-So interesting!

:-)

Amazingly stupidly I did not mark the COG on the drawing - sorry everyone, but I will try and make this true to size and so the balance will be within a cm, even if I get things a bit wrong.

I have also dug a little deeper into the Meyrick collection and with some research I don't currently have time to do, it looks like there was a significant collection of arms and armour in the possession of a Meyrick by the 1830's, but don't know if this sword was part of that.

Tod

Here is the waxes progress so far and even holding the wax pommel, you can feel the weight - it is a monster.

Tod

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Wow....that's gonna be a hoss! Can't wait to see it come together! :D Take care of that thumb now! ;) ....McM

Holy mackerel this is looking great Tod!
How long did it take to carve? Always amazed by how fast you turn this stuff around.
Will you make the blade yourself or team up with Owen?
Best,
J

Mark Moore wrote

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Wow....that's gonna be a hoss! Can't wait to see it come together! Big Grin Take care of that thumb now! Wink ....McM

It will be a piece and the pommel alone will weigh in at around 1kg or 2.2lbs - craziness.

The thumb was not the problem. That got a nasty gash cooking on Saturday, but is OK but my right index finger got a trip to hospital from a broken tile on Sunday. Put paid to dirty work for a week.

Julien M wrote

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Holy mackerel this is looking great Tod! How long did it take to carve? Always amazed by how fast you turn this stuff around. Will you make the blade yourself or team up with Owen? Best, J

Thanks.

Elves, that what I mostly use, but harder to come by than Pixies, which as we all know, are a cheaper alternative.

I only really use Owens excellent work for pattern welding these days, which is a shame as I don't see him as much, but we made up for it with many beers last week, so this blade will be mine.

Any thoughts on the grip? The one shown in the 1878 article shows green (silk?) was this after the original do you think or have I basically got free reign to do what I want? I was thinking of brocade, but last time I tried to find something I failed to find a small enough pattern to work. Failing that green shot silk?

Help!

Tod

I think green silk would be beautiful, but I would have concerns of the sword being handled afterward. It might turn to being a 'white gloves' affair. Something sturdier might be in order. I have personally dispatched MY Elves to your shop for conference on the matter. They will require Guiness and cake. ;) :lol: .....McM

If you pick a fabric and especially a pattern, make sure you get it historically correct. Most things... and I mean 99.5% of them... that i see are incredibly wrong. People consistently make otherwise good costumes with fabrics that are 100 or more years off! Run it by somebody who really, really knows their stuff or avoid it altogether.

So the casters have come through. The castings are excellent quality and the reproduction is very good and amazingly, given that every surface is decorated, they managed to feed them without messing anything up.

The blade is finished and is pretty true to size of the original and the grip is made, so it is well on the way. I applied the original makers mark and added my own, but annoyingly double struck it, but hey, you see that on originals too. Annoying though.

The final pieces of the hilt will be in next week and then all of to the platers.

I hope you like the progress.

Tod

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Beautiful reproduction Tod! Did you have to touch up the details on the cast parts much? They seem remarkably clear, then again, the molds for most cast parts I've seen have probably had more wear.

I somehow missed your latest post Tod.
Absolutely brilliant work - this sword is truly magnificent! The casting details came out beautifully and the blade looks spot on.
Really really looking forward to see this one complete.
Have you decided on the grip treatment? Still leaning toward cloth or plain leather?
Cheers,
J

Ian Hutchinson wrote

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Did you have to touch up the details on the cast parts much?

Hardly at all and for a few technical reasons, much better than I or they expected, so very pleased.

I am waiting for the last parts to come in this week and maybe, just maybe, it will be ready for my big trade show, weekend after next. I have in fact been sewing a green raw silk onto the grip tonight, and will finish in the morning.

I thought hard about Nathans' wise words about fabrics and dating. The original grip remnants looked to be very plain and unstructured and the drawing from the 1870's article also looked to be plain, so a flat silk would suit, but I really wanted a bit more texture than the most likely material offered and hell since the grip is non-original anyway I felt I had some licence, so a pale green raw silk is where I am at, but no more pictures until it is complete.

Tod

That is a really REALLY good work!
love to see every updates here. looking forward to see it finished :)