Posts: 1,248 Location: New Mexico
Fri 06 Dec, 2013 12:50 pm
Nice delivery. Thanks for putting both galleries together.
Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Fri 06 Dec, 2013 6:21 pm
| Benjamin H. Abbott wrote: |
Nice delivery. Thanks for putting both galleries together. |
Pinterest does have its uses, a fast easy way to visibly store and share your images. There are a lot of different types of Japanese mail here. http://www.pinterest.com/nihonnokatchu/samura...ual-parts/
Posts: 72 Location: Estonia
Sat 07 Dec, 2013 9:01 am
Thought id throw in 2 pictures of mail fragments from Estonia, that were shared in internet by one of our reenactors a while ago. I should also have pics about other mail fragments found from here, but at the moment i cant seem to find them, so gonna have to add em later.
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?app=ga...mage=12445
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?app=ga...mage=12444
Probably 12-early 13 century. About 7-7,5mm id, with 1,5-1,8mm ring material.
The one with a big ring is thought to have been worn as a pendant after the hauberk was broken or something.
R
Posts: 34
Sat 07 Dec, 2013 11:58 am
| Eric S wrote: |
| Stanley Hauser wrote: | | Benjamin H. Abbott wrote: | | This site has a ton of pictures of Middle Eastern and South Asian mail, some of which are up close. |
Awesome! Now only if they had a European mail gallery... |
Now that would be something, imagine all of the known European mail images collected and made available for viewing in one place, that would be a worth while effort.
http://www.pinterest.com/samuraiantiques/european-mail-armor/ |
I just realized that my comment may have come off as sarcastic...sorry Eric, I really didn't mean for it to come off that way.
Again, thanks for the link, this is exactly what I was looking for.
Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Sat 07 Dec, 2013 1:04 pm
| Stanley Hauser wrote: |
I just realized that my comment may have come off as sarcastic...sorry Eric, I really didn't mean for it to come off that way.
Again, thanks for the link, this is exactly what I was looking for. |
I did not think that all, I thought it was funny as I just started my European mail pinterest site a few week ago so that I would not have to find all of my stored images over and over.
I am actually quite serious, I think it is about time that the existing mail images that forum members have stored away on their individual computers be put together in a way that is accessible to everyone and I think that pinterest is a great format for storing and sharing images.
Posts: 1,303 Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Sat 07 Dec, 2013 2:29 pm
| Robert Rootslane wrote: |
Thought id throw in 2 pictures of mail fragments from Estonia, that were shared in internet by one of our reenactors a while ago. I should also have pics about other mail fragments found from here, but at the moment i cant seem to find them, so gonna have to add em later.
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?app=ga...mage=12445
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?app=ga...mage=12444
Probably 12-early 13 century. About 7-7,5mm id, with 1,5-1,8mm ring material.
The one with a big ring is thought to have been worn as a pendant after the hauberk was broken or something.
R |
What leads them to such wild speculation?
Posts: 1,462 Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Sat 07 Dec, 2013 2:41 pm
Well, I have seen an article about small pieces of mail from Roman-era Germanic graves (as I recall!), apparently from women's graves. They just seem to be ornaments of some kind. There's usually something attached--trying to remember what. Miniature spear heads or little knife blades, that kind of thing, I think. Might take some digging to find the article, must have been in the Journal of Roman Military Equipment Studies. But in any case, it's a probable case of mail bits serving as jewelry, though rather earlier than the 12th century.
Matthew
Posts: 3,641 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Sat 07 Dec, 2013 5:07 pm
It is likely that the original invention of mail was inspired from jewellery. Does anyone have any pics of the alleged Etruscan mail that some people think predate the Gallic use of
mail armour?
Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Sat 07 Dec, 2013 6:16 pm
| Stanley Hauser wrote: |
By the way, would you or anyone else happen to have any images of mail made by Erik Schmid or other prominent modern mailers? In fact, who else makes high quality mail these days other than Schmid?
The only images of Schmid mail I can find are an old coif of his and two pictures of some of his 12th Century round riveted mail, but I'm not sure if either of those are representative of his later work.
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A couple more.
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Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Sat 07 Dec, 2013 8:42 pm
[quote="Stanley Hauser"]
| Eric S wrote: |
By the way, would you or anyone else happen to have any images of mail made by Erik Schmid or other prominent modern mailers? |
From Julio Junco Funes.
http://www.cotasdemalla.es/ma1.htm
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Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Wed 11 Dec, 2013 5:59 pm
| Robert Rootslane wrote: |
. I should also have pics about other mail fragments found from here, but at the moment i cant seem to find them, so gonna have to add em later.
|
Robert, any luck finding more images?
Here is one of the images that you posted after a little editing.
European (Estonia) riveted mail fragment, possibly 12th to 13th century, about 7-7,5mm id, with 1,5-1,8mm ring material.
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Posts: 589
Wed 11 Dec, 2013 6:44 pm
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368071683595/
I checked and double checked this one; and got out a ruler for comparison. Unreal. I can't fathom what this would look like in person. Like the tiniest, finest-linked shark mail, or something...
Absolutely unreal. The gallery is amazing! Thanks!!
Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Wed 11 Dec, 2013 6:45 pm
| Dan Howard wrote: |
| Does anyone have any pics of the alleged Etruscan mail that some people think predate the Gallic use of mail armour? |
Etruscan mail, from Stone:"A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms And Armor in All Countries and in All Times", 1934.
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Etruscan sword belt showing an early form of mail on the bottom edge, in the bronze room at the Louvre, Paris France.
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Detail of the attachment method, tiny little S hooks. Hanging rings are punched, connecting rings butted.
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Posts: 3,641 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Thu 12 Dec, 2013 4:25 am
That's what I was looking for. So is it armour or decoration?
Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Thu 12 Dec, 2013 5:17 am
| Dan Howard wrote: |
| That's what I was looking for. So is it armour or decoration? |
That would be a matter of personal opinion, it may have been decorative and defensive, a curtain of mail would protect that area better than no curtain and it would not effect maneuverability, and seeing how this may be the only available image to go on I would say that even if the use of it as shown is rather decorative it would be easy to see how it transitioned into being used as armor.
Here is a different view, it looks rather thick when seen from this angle.
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Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 8:48 am
| Kai Lawson wrote: |
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368071683595/
I checked and double checked this one; and got out a ruler for comparison. Unreal. I can't fathom what this would look like in person. Like the tiniest, finest-linked shark mail, or something...
Absolutely unreal. The gallery is amazing! Thanks!! |
Kai, here is a better image of what this extremely small link mail would look like when used, I do not know if this represents the smallest links in use but even this small is amazing. When you see an Italian and the the Sinigaglia hauberk compared to this one, the difference in link size is apparent.
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Posts: 589
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 11:30 am
I am currently taking a break from the lab, but I had the digital calipers out and was looking at the actual thickness of 0.6 mm, and was really unsure how you get a rivet head to form properly (even with pliers) using rivet wire that has to be only a few hairs thick. Those pictures look like a really rough-woven fiber cloth rather than mail. Where is the shirt from?
Posts: 1,303 Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 1:31 pm
Posts: 805 Location: new orleans
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 2:09 pm
| Kai Lawson wrote: |
| I am currently taking a break from the lab, but I had the digital calipers out and was looking at the actual thickness of 0.6 mm, and was really unsure how you get a rivet head to form properly (even with pliers) using rivet wire that has to be only a few hairs thick. Those pictures look like a really rough-woven fiber cloth rather than mail. Where is the shirt from? |
Kai the shirt I posted is really mail, there is some debate as to whether such fine mail was actually armor or just a type of vanity shirt due to the size of the rivet and the inherent weakness of a link made with such a small diameter rivet.
Taking photographs of mail is not easy, I have many unusable images that people have taken at various museums and from private collections, taking a good image of this fine mail would be extra difficult, I think the photographer did a good job considering the lighting in most museums is not good and many do not allow flash.
Hauberk from Le Grand Curtius, Liège, Belgium.
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