Attached is the Bavarian officer's sword I mentioned earlier. Its blade looks a little more slender than the typical spadroon, but it is of a very similar form, and it adds some diversity to the thread which is mostly about British spadroons.

Jonathan

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From HJS WIthers' "World Swords" p.195 [ Download ]

That's a good point. Hope's system, at least, was derived largely from the smallsword, but his stated aim was to make a technique usable for smallswords, broadswords/backswords, and "shearing swords" alike. He might not have phrased it that way, though--I haven't had the time to check my downloaded copy of his New Methods. As for McBane, I've read nothing of his work except for a relatively short collection of extracts in the Linacre School of Defense online library so I don't know what his focus was.

I agree that the specific name (and more-or-less final bladeform) of the spadroon probably emerged only around the middle of the 18th century, though. Wasn't that also the period when English swordsmen and collectors began trying to classify sword forms into unambiguous categories?

The replicas. Hm. Well, I'm planning to round out my medieval and broadsword collection first with two or three blades before I branch out into spadroons. Are there any particular replicas you'd recommend, especially if there's a production model available? And could you provide us with a general comparison between replica and antique spadroon prices?

Beyond the offerings of G.G. Godwin and William Booth Draper, I am not too familiar with the replicas of 18th century military swords. Their prices look to be around $200 or so. I am ignorant of the quality of the manufacture of their swords. I think that the customers for these two vendors are probably reenactors, and I am not sure what edged weapon quality standards are held for reenactments because I know nothing of the rigors that these replicas endure (or don't endure).

If I was in the market for such an item, I would probably go with a custom smith because that is probably the only place to get a high quality replica. I would think that Old Dominion Forge could do terrific work, and I bet A&A could make something as well. You might try PMing Stephen A. Fisher. Based on posts he has made and the swords in his myArmoury album, he seems to have a good knowledge of both antique and replica swords from the 18th century and might be able to point you in a good direction. As far as overall prices, the production replicas will be much less than an antique, but a custom spadroon replica would probably be as costly as an antique. However, a custom replica, while perhaps costly, is replaceable whereas an antique really is not.

Jonathan

The offering at Draper is also offered elsewhere. I almost gambled on one of these but the grip and pommel have a bit of a chunky look to them. Most likely India manufacture and likely a bit blade heavy.

Godwin doesn't really list anything in the spadroon class. At least as far as what I see as a spadroon. There is a wide epee with a brass hilt.

Military Heritage / Discriminating General does have both a replica of the 1796 officer's sword and an nco spadroon (although they are listing the officer's as a sabre?[not]).

Military Heritage stuff is also India production. I never did bookmark the page but I did trip across their source (I truly believe it) in India. Communication with Military Heritage about this has been fruitless but all signs seem to point to it.

There are also other swords like the American m1840 that might stretch to fit this classification but the blades are not as broad. There are a couple of tiers in reproduction of these.

My antique slot hilt spadroon feels very purposeful in hand and handles (not suprisingly) very differently from a similarly proportioned and modern India maufactured foot officer's sword. What the mass market reproductions seem to fail in is correct distal taper. I have spent some time with my reproduction and have filed a bit of metal off the blade. I am still curious about the pillow pommel reproduction that Draper and others carry but I suspect they miss the mark, for the same reason of mass distribution. They may be a good place to start though. I do feel this range of reproductions is probably durable enough for drilling and bouting but getting the feel right might be a project.

I would be the last to doubt the ability of A&A but have to wonder if Craig could handle the fullering in a cost effective manner. Paul Macdonald, of Edinburgh might be a possibility as well. Old Dominion, well, all one could do is ask. Any of these avenues is going to get fairly pricy. Darkwood Armoury is another thought but what to do for a blade (Gus?)?

Most of the plainer antiques I see do run in the $500-$1000 range. I'm sure many of these would handle solo drilling just fine but I don't think most would want to use such for bouting. Mine is suprisingly sound but I wouldn't be beating, cutting with it anytime soon. Another real cutie I'm looking at is priced at about $700 and has bumped to the top of my "if I only had the dough" list.

I'll fire up the pc and put a picture of my slot hilt up.

Cheers

GC

1780s, thereabouts. This was on none of my lists until I found it. Not wholly unreasonably priced and has cleaned up quite a bit. The guard is such that it wuld have provided a good bit more protection than some of the later hilts.

Cheers

GC

I really like your antique slot hilt spadroon! This period of collecting isn't normally one that I pay a lot of attention to, but maybe I am missing out :)

That's a very pretty sword. Could we have a clearer view of the blade?

I don't think I would call the slot hilt "pretty", but it is very attractive in a functional way. I tend to favor some variety in my sword collection, so one of those would fit in very nicely. Thanks for posting it, Glen.

I forgot to mention that I was saying "pretty" not to the hilt form as it is, but to the potential of modification. I've mentioned elsewhere that I occasionallt dabble in sketching fantasy sword designs, and this hilt design gave me an almost immediate ring of inspiration--something like a beautified version of it would have looked very nice for the parade sword of a secret police organization, for example. ;)

I always enjoy pics of your slot hilt, Glen. The guard is certainly thicker than is found on other similar swords. After this inspiring thread, maybe my next big purchase will be a nice Georgian spadroon...

Jonathan

An idle evening at home has prompted me to post some photos (see attachments). Spadroons featured in several books I mentioned earlier in the thread, for the purpose of illustrating the variety of hilts. Browsing the National Maritime Museum collections online will also yield some nice examples.

Jonathan

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From Petersen's "The American Sword"

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From Petersen's "The American Sword"

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From Robson's "Swords of the British Army"

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From Robson's "Swords of the British Army"

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From Bezdek's "Swords and Sword Makers of England and Scotland"

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From Bezdek's "Swords and Sword Makers of England and Scotland"

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From Bezdek's "Swords and Sword Makers of England and Scotland"

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From Neumann's "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution"

Here are some modern replicas...

...from Macdonald Armouries (IMHO the best looking out of the others below):
[ Linked Image ][ Linked Image ]
[ Linked Image ]

...from Wm. Booth Draper:
[ Linked Image ][ Linked Image ]

...from Military Heritage (the blade is all wrong):
[ Linked Image ][ Linked Image ]

...from G.G. Godwin (the "Epee du Soldat"--the closest sword they have to a spadroon):
[ Linked Image ]

Jonathan

I agree about the Discriminating General's (MH) 1796 officer's blade. I wish they had a picture up for the sargeants blade but all they have up is one of the drummer's length
http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/1796d1.jpg

That looks a little better but I'd want a picture of the longer version before jumping. The fuller on my slot hilt runs right up to the point.

Macdonald Armouries has been in the back of my mind for a couple of years but I decided to window shop the antique listings, for what I imagine to be fairly similar money. It gets back to the "What are you going to do with it?" question. If I was wanting a blunt for bouting, no doubt I would have been in touch with Paul by now.

Edited because I wasn't reading Draper's ad copy. It is other vendors that sell both gold and silver plate versions. I'm not drawn to the fittings on these.

Clean and cheap originals are a bit tough to find but "nice enough" really isn't that expensive. Often without scabbards, one can still get a feel for them without neccessarily breaking the bank.

There are sometimes m1840s for really good prices. Lee Reeves sold one recently that was a nice deal.

Overseas auctions seem to be the best source for real pretties.

Cheers

GC

Lafayette,

Just to add another possibility for you, I have been making spadroons for WMA applications. PM me if you'd like to know more.

Cheers

Tim