Some 16th century brigandines feature a form of tassets, but I'm not aware of any 15th C. examples. Personally I use a maille fauld to cover this gap.

Take a look at some Burgundian tapestries, like the ones in the Bernisches Historisches museum - there are some very interesting brigandines there; brigandines with spaulders, brigandines with tassets etc..

JG Elmslie wrote:

ia! ia! Brigandine! Rise from the dead! *shakes a few chicken bones at the thread* sorry, could'nt resist. just a thought, since the thread has shambled from the crypt for a breath of fresh air, anyone know of reference material about upper leg defences with brigandines? a bit of poking recently through Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight did'nt come up with much - if it's plate, the fauld drops to the hip level, and in a longish brig, the same sort of coverage is available there... but then there's tassets in front of the cuisses on plate... anyone know if there was an equivalent on brigandines when they were worn with leg armour? [/i]

Hello to all (my first post, after lurking a while). Here you have a photo of a brigantine, with tassets, covered in red velvet. it's currently in the Musèe del Armèe, but before, it was part of the Estruch collection, in Barclona. iIve been unable to find photos of it on the web :confused: so I had to do the work myself...

[ Linked Image ]

For a bigger image click HERE

im starting out making armour and hope to make a brigandine for myself but dont really know much on them i have read throuhg this post and though you guys could help.
how do you make them what cloth is best to use what metal thickness i was thinking 16gauge.
also does anyone have patterns for a brig that i could use for as many periods as possible?
and roughly how many rivets will i need?
and will i need washers?
do the plates need dishing or are the flat?
also where would i get tin in the uk and how much would i need?
thanks for advance for any help.

Hi Nathan F, lets see if I can answer these questions for you.

First, patterns.

As to using this for multiple periods, that is a little tricky. The brigandine is considered to have "evolved" from the Coat of Plates (14th century) eventually becoming the Jack of Plate (16th century) One example of a 16th century Jack was actually made from pieces of an earlier brigandine*. Essentially the plates get considerably smaller and the garment becomes more fitted to the wearer.

So while it is very possible that an earlier example may have survived a later example is obviously out.

A good site is the Armour Archive which has patterns for a version from each century so you can compare them;

You will need to adjust the patterns to fit you (as you would with any pattern you don't make yourself) but this will give you a good idea to start from.

http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/brig/

Also, Craig Nadler has made a few brigandines and his website has patterns and plenty of advice too. While this is definately a 15th century style you could use it for early 16th century if that helps.

http://www.eskimo.com/~cwn/brig_craig1.html

As for material, use a good stout fabric like canvas as a foundation and either linen, strong wool, velvet or leather as your outer layer depending on your status (velvet being the poshest, then wool, linen and leather).

Personally I would only suggest using 16 guage for the larger "lung-plates" on a brigandine, the rest can be done in 18 guage since the plates overlap so much. (Personally, I have used 18g galvainsed steel for my first brigandine- when I am completely happy with the pattern I'll look into tinning the next set.)

If however you choose to make a Coat of Plates then I might be tempted to go for 16 guage (if all of the plates are big and there is little overlap.)

Rivets, I have used copper roofing nails on my brigandine, (again, the mk2 will have nicely filed ones) Ordinary rivets tend to have too small a head (which will allow the fabric to pull away from the plate too easily) I know others have used galvanised steel clout nails to good effect (the galvanising looks a little like tinning on the nails). I used some 1400 nails on mine, this will vary depending on what you make of course. You shouldn't need washers as the nails are peened directly against the plate.

Finally, the plates I made were all shaped to curve around the body but not dished (except the lung plates which needed to fit in two directions). They were each hammered into a curve, giveing a small amount of work hardening to each piece as a bonus.

Here are a couple of pictures of my Brig, finished January 2010


Hope this helps!

Jon Terris

*"On the remains of a jack of plate excavated from Beeston Castle in Cheshire", from the Arms and Armour Journal, Vol XIII, no2, Sept 1989

Just wondering about period maintenance ? How did they deal with cuts or rips in the outer fabric ?

I would imagine that a high quality repair should be invisible to the eye or would an old Brigantine acquire " character " with obviously patched up rips and tears.

Armour with the metal bits on the outside like a scale shirt would seem to avoid this problem, on the other hand I assume that scale shirts are much more vulnerable to blades slipping between the scale than with the Brigantines where the overlapping lames are much harder to slip a blade in between the lames ?

It depends on how much damage one suffers Jean.

There is one at the Historisches Museum, Basel which (in my opinion) shows some signs of repair - granted this could just as easily be from re-construction.

My brigandine was sewn together from 5 panels after the plates had been riveted in, the seams are visible but not unsightly- you could easily replace a panel if it was damaged in this manner.

If the damage is too bad then I expect the brigandine would be replaced by the owner.

Armour is the medieval equivalent of Personal Protective Equipment, these days if we crash whilst wearing a crash helmet or fall whilst wearing a harness then we are supposed to replace it. I believe that the same thinking would apply with an armour designed to save your life (assuming one could afford to replace it that is).

We do know that brigandines were re-cycled into Jack of Plates (Beeston), this could have been because the brigandine had failed structurally (or possibly just because the style was out of fashion) but we can also infer that a damaged brigandine could be re-used - its plates either stripped down and re-mounted or cut into another item.

I have a friend who has been re-enactment fighting for a few seasons in a brigandine, it shows some scars but nothing really serious thus far.

I would think that having the plates on the outside would leave them more prone to damage if anything, the chances of losing plates through leverage and sliced cuts much higher although I have no real experience in scale armour so I cannot be sure of this!

Jon T


[/i]

Found another supplier fro brigs. Try ASH in the UK http://www.armour-services-historical.co.uk/

very nice work

Tod

Last year I gave a positive review to Steel Mastery on my COP. I still like it and that particular transaction was flawless. However, lately I have tried buying more from them via ebay and there are some odd things going on that are not simply language barrier issues......... I am afraid I have to withdraw my positive comments about them. tr

Glad to hear of your positive experience but its not "an ebay thing". its a "steel mastery thing".

Hey everyone, im a new member here.
ive been trying to learn armoring for quite some time and am very interested in making brigandine.

i was successful with a 120 plate, 680 rivet Coat of plates which i designed, but i know that Brigandine plates overlap..... any tips on making brigandine or helpful hints? ill be using the same pattern as my coat of plates for the cover and backing material since it fits me well.

thanks. :)

oh as for the materials i use only 16 GA. milled steel, an outer layer of 1/16in sued leather, and an inner set of 3/16in leather lining plates made from tanned cow hide to absorb shock from blunt impacts then an inner layer of canvas.



a bit about me, i play in the SCA and Amtgard performing small repair work and on rare occasion taking orders as a blacksmith and armorer. i prefer the weight of historically accurate materials for the aesthetic value as well as their durability..... helps when taking those unforeseen blows from pole-arms and heavy weapons. anyways, im still rather new to this industry and i joined this site to get tips and learn as much as i can. :)

Hi Tyler,

Welcome!

Did you look at the patterns and guides listed in Jon Terris' post (April 12, 2010) above?

Unfortunately they wouldnt come up on my computer.... and anyways, i designed my own pattern that seems to work well for the fabric portions, i was just wondering about techniques, and things that would make life a bit easier with brigandine.... like how to make my own rivets so im not using quick set rivets any more. Mostly just fine tuning, what tools are most useful and if i dont have the tools how can i make them. Just little stuff like that. :)

The first link is working for me ... maybe try another browser?

For Craig's brig/s and instructions, try this link: http://nadler.us/brig_craig1.html

If you do a search at The Armour Archive, you'll find leads on rivet supplies ... there's also ideas in the posts above! :D