Kenneth Blair wrote: |
[Facts are something that can be established. You seem to imply this is not the case but I can only lead a horse to water. We come at this 2 ways, investigate the swords archaeological context & physical metallurgical properties and then examine the myths seperately and decide if there is in fact any reason to associate the well known stories to the numerous swords that are presently linked to the Wu/Yue legends in Chinese museums.
The link is there I believe via the legends, but perhaps not a link contemporary to the actual S&A kings themselves. This would mean they may not be exactly what they are supposed to be according to the label, but instead testify to the way in which the Wu/Yue saga was already being romanticised by the Warring States period. You are right Peter, that the legends one way or another are part of the swords history (perhaps the legends more than the real kings is my point). I would not either assume that every bit of the 'true' cross, or iron nail, or piece of shroud bought to Europe by crusading knights from the Holy Lands was actually used in the crucifixion of Jesus either, even if people had revered the various pieces for nearly 1,000 years. Some might just be, but it is fairly certain that not all are. What people 'believe' will only get you so far if authenticity is also important and could concievably be deduced. Consider the "Spear of Destiny". More than one of those has turned up over the last 2,000 years, and the most famous example in Austria is apparently a 7th century AD spear based on a 21st century investigation. |
What I imply is that we today have our own contemporary perception of ' facts'. At present I am studying the visigothic law code to have a glimpse of theire perception in order to get some perspective to the settlement site near here. They had a non factual spiritual reason not to live in stone dwelling p.e. At the site this means that older roman rests dominate the absence of visigothic construction whereas they did assimilate most of roman culture and were more numerous at this place. The visigothic perception is crucial yet we do not have a clue as to why. Probably just a visigothic myth ;)
The relic business is a good example of the complexity. A piece of the cross would usually change an obscure church in an important place of reverance attracting thousands of travellers, thus changing the loaclity profoundly. Wether the wood was real or not was irrelevant even then; the history realy changed.
In cooperation with archeologist friends I do some experimental archeology which is valuable BUT.... I live in the heartland of andalucia and quite a lot of local customs at a practical existential level are governed by cultural ' beliefs' that lead to impractical ways and -solutions. Experimental archeology would in those cases lead to a scenario that has little or nothing to do with what is actually done over here. I am conviced, but do not KNOW for a fact, that p.e. bronze age sword making would be heavily influanced by the cultural aspects. I am convinced that swords were far, FAR more important as cultural, virtual, objects than as arms.
What p.e. to think of a rich grave with an at the time centuries old and broken sword on the body?!
Fact: pigs cannot fly. If medieval farmers thought they could, they would have constructed stables like cages, leaving us baffled. The rest of the building, the ' facts' woul leave modern man clueless about why all this extra effort went into the constructions.
This goes back all the way to the neolithic: various forms of stone tools have been worked in ways that appear to have no practical reason, sometimes quite a lot of extra effort leads to less practical, even useless 'tools'. Why?
Look at the artefacts called ' venus', like the venus of willendorf. Those seem wildly out of time in being surprisingly sophisticated: I have a quality replica on the table to remind me of the spiritual perception of man :idea:
Add the spiritual flint objects and the venus together and remember that the mind of Homo sapiens is as is and ever was.
Perceived importance is as hard as any ' fact' and spiritual beleif more important than even self preservation.
My point is:
- facts should be seen in their most existential way as facts only
- we should be aware that our perception is just a perception just as real as that in other times
- 'myth' is real as perception
- experimental archeology produces products of OUR perception
Fact: households of myArmoury members contain several swords.
What would this say over their use and importance 5 centuries in the future? That we are a secret warrior class for some reason fighting with ancient arms? That our sword smiths were shamans practicing parodies of ancient anachronistic rituals to produce poor replications of lost art?
Just look at the present day artefacts as ' fact': lots of rubbish, some decent ones and the odd piece of art, most found in places of ' reverance', sometimes even at the wall at the centre of the main dwelling ;)
Fact? It is all perception :lol:
peter