i'm looking for a LH quality sword for my norman reenactment. is MRL still of the wall hanger only blade or are tehy better now? now this wouldnt be a beater sword, i have a binns for that, but i need one with correct shape, weight etc to show to the public.

I have a total of four Museum Replicas swords. Two are Del Tin made blades from back in the day: the "Norman" sword and the "Sword of St. Maurice" (Turin). Both are right up your alley for what you are looking for. The Norman is a very good sword, cuts and handles well, and is an accurate representation of type. The SoSM is shorter than the Albion and not engraved, but it is still a very good sword and accurate as a typical type X. Neither is unfortunately available from MRL anymore.

The other two are Windlass made. One is the "Knightly Hand-and-a-Half" sword that was discontinued a few years ago. It is much too whippy for my taste and the cheap looking hilt and scabbard serve to detract from this sword's appearance. IMO, it's not much better than a wall hanger. The other Windlass I have is the "Shrewsbury" sword that I bought right after their switch to Windlass. The hilt on that one simply fell apart (it was never used for anything but as a wall hanger and in light dry handling) and has it has recently been cut in two in order to make a rondel dagger. I've had other Windlass: a cheap swept-hilt rapier and the "Wheel of Time Heron Mark" sword (the only decent one of the bunch), both of which were sold to literally pay my rent when I was laid off in 2002.

Of course, I've heard that they've done much to improve the quality since I bought any of their wares, but I have become very picky in what swords I buy, so I likely won't be getting another MRL.

By and large, Windlass/MRL swords are pretty decent. There has a been an increase in peened, rather than threaded, tangs, and the they have made some improvements when it comes to having correctly shaped swords. Hilt components will probably loosen with use and the blades tend to be more flexible than I really want, but they're not bad. If you find a sword that looks right, then it probably wouldn't be a bad purchase. I wouldn't use it for more than light cutting, but I don't anticipate any MRL sword just falling apart from handling.

That said, quality control at Windlass still seems to be a bit wanting. Overall they are decent, but things do tend to vary more than with higher end manufacturers. MRL has a rather generous return policy, so it might not be a problem.

There are several reviews of MRL swords in the Reviews section. Reading those might provide you with some of the information you are seeking.

-Grey

I definately wouldn't call them wall hangers, but just keep in mind that the majority of the swords are around the $200 range, and there's only so much you can expect from that. What you generally get is a sword that handles decently, has a decent blade (is usually fairly well heat treated), and looks decent to a person who doesn't really know better. Anyone who's looked at period originals will find the fittings to be a little on the cheap looking side, though these have gotten a little better, too. My biggest problem with MRL has been hilt construction, which tends to loosen up. This seems to be a problem with most swords under the $350 range, though. I have it happen on Del Tins a lot, too.

So if these are swords for the general public to pick up and realize that a real sword isn't 50 lbs, I think MRL is a good way to go so that you can get a decent variety without breaking your budget. You may want to try aging the fitting a little bit to take some of the chrome-look away, though.

The Windlass swords I hear the best things about, or have experience with myself:

German Falchion-13th/14th c.
Arbedo-14th c.
Towton-15th c. (judging from your avatar, this would be the best choice for you. By-the-Sword still has some in stock
(http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Windlass_Sword_Page_2.html"
Scottish Backsword-16th/17th c.
German Hanger-18th c.

I also got to handle one the Windlass German Hand-and-a-half swords (16th c.) several years ago and was impressed with it. I see things about it now that I don't care for, but I loved the feel of it and admired certain details (pommel). It's the poor man's A&A German Bastard Sword, and I'd love to get one of these in my workshop for upgrading.

I'll second Grey's formula--If it looks historically plausible, you'll probably be satisfied with it. Keep in mind that some very simple upgrading can dramtically improve the look of any Windlass piece (new grip wrap, stripping lacquer from blade and hilt, subduing shine with light sanding, etc. I've never seen an attractive factory finish from Windlass, but a small amount of thought and effort works wonders. As for loose components--either repeen or, in the case of screw-type pommels, simply add a few spots of JB Weld to the furniture and re-assemble.

Okay for the money but some things are just not acceptable. I found the hilt construction to be inferior and the blades too whippy. I hope they stopped nickel plating stuff because it looks really cheesy.

For entry level they're okay I suppose.

The blade of the Scottish Backsword is appropriately stiff, as was the blade on their old "Culloden" baskethilt sword. Ditto for the falchion and hanger.

I've always found MRL to be a good value. They don't have all the fine detail of higher-priced swords but are still very nice for the money.

I have been more impressed with their scabbards as of late. While still not very historic, they are fitting better and have some design details that dress them up a bit.

Just my .02

I've got the MRL 15th C longsword and I'm pretty happy with it. So far no problems with hilt construction, the blade is nice, decent balance, etc.

You simply can't expect to get an Albion or Arms and Armour sword for $200. In the details, my longsword's hilt shows signs of a little bit of sloppy welding (you really have to look) and the grip wrap is a little "fake leather" looking. If that's all I have to put up with for a $500 discount compared to some others, I can live with that.

I have had an MRL sword with a whippy blade. It was the Italian rennaissance sword of about 2 years ago. It was advertised as capable for half-swording, yet the blade was not stiff enough and the tip was "noodley." I find on my other MRL sword that the peen comes loose (brass fittings). For a starter sword, they are an entry point -- but I would recommend the Albion squire line, Del Tin and even Armour Class for solid alternatives (of course a bit more expensive too...).

Just my two cents... :cool:

For those that cannot progress to better swords at this point, I think they're a great option. What I like best about MRL however, is that they tend to offer a very interesting and perhaps obscure mix of sword designs, many of which are not produced by other makers. Examples of this include the Sword of Granson, the Italian Cut & Thrust, Sword of St. Michael, the Novara, etc. Its just kind of nice that swords from various periods and nationalities are available to the average consumer. Also, I have their Swiss Baselard and its blade is not whippy at all, and all its fittings are quite solid.

I have two MRL swords and both of them have quite stout blades. Both are more recent Windlass works and are actually quite capable cutters as I've put both through some pretty harsh tests. I did stip the laquer off of both and I make a close inspection of the hilts after cutting. But I've not had any loosening with either hilt yet. I guess my only real complaint is the hilt quality. Even though both have peened hilts, the material and craftsmanship aren't anywhere close to what you would get from a sword costing only maybe $100-$200 more. Regardless of any of that, I knew what I was getting all along. "Pretty" accurate replicas with sturdy blades and decent cutting ability. When I want anything more than that, I pony up the cash for it. But knowing what I was getting into when I got these swords, I really couldn't ask for anything more out of them. They are indeed not just wall hangers. I actually consider these to be the best of my "cheaper" swords.

I actually have an older viking blade from them, the "leif erickson commemorative" or whatever it was. Not at all historically accurate i think (and mine has the rounded edge sadly; gotta get that fixed) But it is a very nice looker (despire one or two minor flaws in the hilt decoration) and a very stout blade. The peen seems to suggest some length of rat tail at the end of the tang, but it is quite solidly built and still hasn't developed even a slight rattle after 4 years or so. Quite pleased with it actually, i think i might send it to someone for sharpening, a better polish and some touchups on the hilt.

I have a Shrewsbury and I'm pretty satisfied with it. For just a little over $100, it's pretty nice. I like MRL swords and I think they're way more than wallhangers. I think they're excellent for those of us who just don't have the disposable income to buy $600-$1000 production swords. Customs are right out.

If any sword snobs want to buy me an Albion, I wouldn't object. :D I especially like the Crecy and the Talhoffer. Let me know and I'll send you my address.

With tongue in cheek,

Jan Downs

I belong to the Patrick Kelly school of thought: Windlass swords are now (for the most part) worth what they charge for them. For somebody on a strict budget, or someone who for whatever reason can't justify spending several hundred to several thousand dollars on a sword, they really aren't too terrible. The two improvements that I think would increase their functionality/desirability by an order of magnitude would be: a) stiffer blades on their longer swords and b) better fitting hilt components (grossguards, grips and pommels). Since I'm not a sword maker, I have no idea how much such improvements would cost, so perhaps they're doing the best they can while maintaining their current price point? Who knows? Anyhow, as far as something to show off to the curious, I think most any of the newer Windlasses would serve perfectly well: they aren't "dead on" historically, but they're about as close as you're going to get in their price range (IMHO). :)

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT an expert, though I try awfully hard to sound like one... :lol:

thanks guys. see heres my problem:
for once i have some cash to spend, but i'm pulled in too many directions to think clearly hehehe i need some advice, or guidence things i need for current kits:

roman:
pugio, pilum, scutum

15thc:
milanese or like gauntlets, italian export or coventry sallet

11thc norman:
dress sword

now for now i have a 300 budget, might have more after sat. i know i cant get them all, but i'd like to think i could get 1 or 2 things checked off of here. got any other good leeds or links to help me out?

Don't get anything Roman before checking out Legio XX's site. They have great advice on vendors, specific products and DIY.

Don't get anything Roman before checking out Legio XX's site. They have great advice on vendors, specific products and DIY.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/