I was looking through Edge&Paddock's Arms and Armour of the Medieval knight in search of pcitures for another thread on the forum when I came across the famous painting by Uccello of the Rout of San Romano 1432. Now I've looked at this paint a lot of times both in colour and in black and white and this is the first time I've noticed the detail I've attached
an image of. The man-at-arms wielding the war hammer is attacked by two men-at-arms one of which is clearly couching his sword in the manner of lance as he charges. Now I've seen written references to this fightign technique before (see below) but tghe painting makes wonder if the pratice could not have been less of a desperation tactics as I assumed and more of a common method employed if the opportunity presented itself. Does anyone have more information about this fighting thechnique? Can it befound in the fighting/fencing manuals of the period? Does more written descriptions exist of actual employment of the technique than the two I've quoted? Can those of you with pratcial experience in mounted combat echniques confimr or dismiss it as a usefull move to employ?

Quote:

Oakeshott makes mention of the episode of Sieur de Joinville, a writing in 1309 of an incident in the battle of Mansourah in St. Louis's fatal crusade of 1250. He writes of a passage describing a sword being drawn from its place in front of the saddle and tucked under the arm, and being "used in the manner of a lance", it was run into the opponent to slay him.

Spotlight: Oakeshott Type XV Swords
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spotxv.html

Froissart describes the following incident from the battle of Poitiers 1356:

Quote:

It happend in the midst of the general pursuit, that a squire from Picardy, named Jean de Helennes, had quitted the king's division and meeting his page with a fresh horse, had mounted and made off as fast as he could. There was near him at the time the Lord of Berkeley, a young knight who had that day for the first time displayed his banner, and he immediately set off in pursuit of him. When the Lord of Berkley had followed for some time Jean de Helennes turned about, put his word under his arm in the manner of a lance and thus advanced upon his adversary.

Unfortunately David Nicolle ends his quote from Froissart there but in short writes that the Lord of Berkley was defeated and taken prisoner after being wounded. The squire got so large a ransom that it allowed him to become a knight.
(Quote taken from Poitiers 1356 by D. Nicolle, Osprey Publishing.)

Cheers
Daniel

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Hi Daniel,
Mounted combat isn't my area of expertise at all, so I can't fully help. That said, couching the sword as a lance is definately used in the Liechtenauer system of fencing while in armour. The four guard involves doing so, and as Ringeck writes, "Hold your sword with both hands as described above [referring to halfswording]. Hold it with the grip under the right shoulder and put the hilt in front on the right of your chest, so that the point rises up to your opponent." (Christian Tobler's translation) This guard is a very threatening position where you can easily attack from, where you can really get your body behind the thrust. There are many times where you will attack your opponent from a different position and wind into this guard as well, providing better leverage and control into the gap of the armour. This last example could be similar to what's happening in the picture, particularly since it's presumably being used with one hand on the reins. Not sure if this helps you or not, but thought I'd mention it.

As far as I know (and as I say, I'm not that knowlegdable when it comes to mounted combat), the Liechtenauer tradition does not couch the sword as a lance while mounted, but there are many things that other styles did on horseback that are not found in Liechtenauer's teachings, so that's not really saying much.

Fiore de Liberi (Flower of Battles AD 1409) has some material devoted to fighting on horse. A "couched sword" is not depicted or described (according to translation.) His recommended sword guards correspond more closely to Ochs (Ox) and Nebenhut(diagonally lowered).

Hi Daniel,

Bill is right. The couched sword technique can be found in Ringeck. It is also mentioned, as I've been told by Bart, in Gladitoria, although that reference is also done in conjecture to foot combat.

Daniel;

In a much later work, John Cruso recommends bracing the pommel of the sword against the hip in order to use it as a thrusting weapon, using the velocity and mass of the horse as the means of projecting it, rather than relying on the mere muscles of the arm. This certainly is akin to using the sword as a lance, though the technique is different from that shown in The Rout of San Romano.

Too, as I recall (and I may well be wrong here) the use of estoc was much the same (at least among the Poles, and I would think at least a few others), i.e. a heavy thrusting weapon using the strength of the horse rather than the arm for when the lance was shattered. I know not the exact hold that was used, though.

Cheers,

Gordon

I have often wondered if the large bearing sword were somehow a lance hybrid

A bearing sword was used as a way to show off ones wealth and position. Sort of a "look what I can afford" item. I don't believe such swords were ever used in combat.