Hello all,

I was examining 12th and 13th century manuscript illustrations when I noticed something odd about the cross-guards on a few of the swords depicted in some illustrations. The curve of the cross-guards on these swords are reversed towards the hilt, I find this very unusual. I wouldn't have thought much of it, except for the illustrations are from different manuscripts and times. I used the forums search function, but was unable to find anything about them, and Google wasn't helpful either.
I can't find any records of cross-guards like these, only these illustrations.

Does anyone know anything of cross-guards like these actually existing at those times? Or were they mistakes and/or fantasy's of the illustrators?

I also think cross-guards like that would be rather hindering with combat, and not practical at all.

Here are the links to the images:

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4112/12074/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5006/15600/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5006/15592/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4449/11129/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4107/12197/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4748/10694/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5571/19850/

Thanks for looking.

Those certainly are perplexing pieces of work. I don't recall seeing an existing specimen with a reverse curved cross from that period of European history. I believe it is seen later in the 15th century Swiss degen.

I've never handled such a sword, but expect it would only work with a 'handshake' grip and be more suitable for thrusting than chopping motions. This again seems out of place for the style of sword blade we associate with the 12th and 13th centuries.

Many of the early basilards seem to have the same guard as the later Schweizerdegen.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4748/10671/

I'd noticed that feature in the ONB Bible before, but it seems to me the artist has a tendency to show the guards canted toward the point when sheathed, and towards the pommel when drawn.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?manuscript=4748

My guess is that a lot of these illustrations are Bible stories, or from ancient history. The first one is certainly the Sleeping Guards at the tomb of Christ, for instance. So the hilt shapes could just be details that the artist is trying to make look "archaic" or "Biblical". You'll also see things like unusual shield shapes, odd helmets, etc. It's probably best not to treat them as "real" objects.

Matthew

We discussed this a few years back: http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18390 . Weird-looking stuff for sure.

new I'd seen at least 1 english effigy with a rear facing guard..

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/1553601092/in/photostream/

and it only took me 2 hours to find! :-)

Such a guard which is basically straight and with just ends bent down makes much more sense functionally than if it was bent along the whole length.

After reading all the the posts, and the link to the other article that Chad posted, guards like these seem to appear rarely in illustrations throughout the middle ages, and not just a small period.
I am very curious as to how one would fight with a guard like that, without it jabbing you in the wrist, and fowling up blade technique. I had one theory as to how they could be used. Maybe a type XI sword with a reversed cross-guard would have been used with a handshake grip for slashing attacks from horseback against unarmored foes?
I would think of them as an early form of civilian use sword, except almost all of the figures in the illustrations are armored, and not in casual garb, and there are no records from that time that come to my mind that mention anything like that.
I don't really think they would have been trusting weapons because a lot of the images come from before trusting swords like the XIV came into use, and type X's, XI's and XII's would not have been useful as a predominantly thrusting focused weapon.

Even with a hand shake grip, I still don't get why on earth you would design a cross facing the "wrong" direction. At least just go with a straight guard :) . I am just trying to understand what a rear facing guard buys you besides bad ergonomics...I can't think of one thing.

Only one way to find out I suppose. Maybe one of our esteemed smithing colleagues could knock up a basic one and wave it about a bit with some learned friends...

We have a few Byzantine depictions after the Millennium, and a few more around 13-14th c. Surely an Eastern feature.