Posts: 870 Location: Seattle area
Sat 01 Mar, 2008 3:38 pm
Chad Arnow wrote: |
Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Makes sense Chad and a good rebuttal as the potentiel for improper assembly is greater with a kit and someone taking a finished sword apart is really taking the full responsibility if they don't or can't put it back together properly: Just thought it would be good to look at the counter arguments. ;) :cool: |
Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see good quality kits on the market. Tod's Stuff has dagger kits and I'd love to see sword kits on the market, too.
But I can totally understand why makers would decline (and have declined) to offer them. :) |
I actually did a bit of this locally, with rapier blade "drop-in" kits. The blades were meant to work with existing Darkwood hilts........
But, it wound up more hassle than it was worth. The idea was to offer superior blades at a real discount... however, I wound up answering so many tech questions, and handling so many fitting issues, it just wasn't worth it.
A kit might be nice for the customer, if I was a collector I'd like that too. However, to make this really work {kit idea}, everything would have to fitted perfectly, then disassembled, then boxed up and stored. The customer expects a "deal", but the maker has more labor involved, and will deal with more questions down the road. Customer support is work, and isn't free for the maker or seller {either someone is getting paid for this, or its taking someone from other work}, so in my view, the kit idea isn't likely to work.
A kit idea sounds good here, but isn't really workable in the real world.......
Posts: 123 Location: lawrence, kansas
Mon 03 Mar, 2008 9:20 am
Long saexes and the larger single edged viking period swords.....a good long saex is has a viscous thrust to it.
Also how about offering them with the option of the handle dismantled? I bet there are many folk out there that go ahead and strip the hilt and refurbish for aestetic reasons along with customizing it for their hand.....Put in a "how to" manual for for the beginner and give a small price break.
Posts: 123 Location: lawrence, kansas
Mon 03 Mar, 2008 9:23 am
or at least make a minimal hilt and offer cord/leather thong and let them custom wrap for a more personalized fit.
Posts: 13 Location: South Dakota
Mon 03 Mar, 2008 9:34 am
Quote: |
“Oh, and if you or any other manufacturers want to knock my socks off, you should offer a simple, unmounted halberd head of ca. 1450-1500 for $200 USD. Nobody does affordable (and reasonably accurate) polearms!” |
That would be awesome.
Quote: |
A nice rondel dagger under 200 $ would be extremely nice. It doesn't have to be fancy like the A&A rondel, or a custom dagger from Tods Stuff, just a plain rondel with a wood grip and two plain rondels for the "pommel" and guard, and a stiff blade with a triangular cross-section. |
That too.
Honestly, if I’m paying less than $300 for a sword, I would be happy with blunt carbon steel, tight furniture, not too ornate, and reasonable historical accuracy.
The signature line looks good, and I think you hit the nail on the head with the practical line.
Posts: 60
Mon 07 Apr, 2008 1:36 pm
What I would love is a practical/training rapier that is STIFF. I've never seen one.
Ooh, and a true two-hander that doesn't weigh 50% more than the historical examples.
Posts: 48 Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 4:35 pm
Are the CF Signature swords constructed like the Practicals with a threaded tang & screw that hold the hilt assembly and blade together?
Ed T.
Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 8 Location: Denver, Co.
Fri 13 Jun, 2008 9:10 pm
Victor R. wrote: |
I would love to see a kriegsmesser that is more historically accurate than the Cold Steel "grosse messer" and at a more affordable price point than Albion's Knecht. |
I'm going to have to support this notion as well. I would love to have a single handed messer with a blade flexible enough for sparing in light armor.
A Holbein type dagger would be nice too.
Posts: 23 Location: Richmond, VA
Tue 01 Jul, 2008 3:05 pm
Stage use?
One market for low-price but servicable swords is stage combat, and I'm not sure that's been spoken to yet here. I'm happy to answer any questions (MORE than happy to do reviews) representing that, as someone who does prop weapons rentals, fight choreography, instruction and performance for both stage and film.
Qualities I look for... some are universal (aesthetics, solid construction, decent balance) but some are different:
I'd rather have something overbuilt than have perfect balance. Stage swords often take a lot of abuse, a lot of edge bashing, so I really like things like bigger fullers and then more mass towards the edges.
Rounded edges.
Good temper, but also similar temper to industry standards. I have some blades that are harder, austempered steel and they tend to chew up my other swords a bit. Want something that is a bit hard to bend far, and will spring right back when released. Good solid tang, all the usuals.
Stage swords get dropped regularly too, so the hilts can't have any fragile parts. I also like to avoid pointy bits or hook-ey bits on the hilts that might poke people or snag costumes during fights.
Easy maintenance: threaded is easier than peened to tighten over time. Welded is just fine as long as you can still fix any problems with the grip that might occur.
Sound- having swords that ring nicely when struck together is a plus. Tight construction helps; my best for this tend to be welded hilts.
Universally useable- grips that can be comfortable for a range of hand sizes, that can be used left or right handed, etc.
I don't personally care if they're sharp or dull, as I can always grind off an edge... as long as there's enough mass there that'll be left after I do.
Really THE equivalent to beat for production beaters is the Hanwei practical line, and now the Cas models they're taking over. Windlass started a similar line of blunts, but I don't know anyone who's bought them, as they seem to be totally comparable to the Hanwei practicals and cost twice or three times as much. Other common stage combat beaters would be Starfire, American Fencer's Supply, Baltimore Knife & Sword, etc.
Hope some of this is useful to you, and good luck. I don't currently have any of your swords in myArmoury, but in time maybe that will change- your stuff's looking much better!
Posts: 443 Location: Granby (QC) canada
Thu 03 Jul, 2008 6:53 am
I really like cord-wrapped grip so it would be good to have some in this ''redesign'' .
Posts: 65
Fri 11 Jul, 2008 6:24 pm
"Kits" vs. spare parts, and a market waiting to be
I'd like to throw my 2 cents in on the "kit" issue...
Too many posts on the topic, going back, to quote them all, but to quickly summarize, several people think it would be terrific. A few others have concerns about safety, liability and conformity to historical or esthetic norms, and -perhaps most importantly- Gus is less than enthusiastic about it for what appear to be technical and logistical reasons. Well, they're Gus' designs so maybe that's the final word, but how is the current situation much different?
I happen to own a decent number of ATrim swords, and I have mixed and matched pommels and guards on all of them until I was happy with the results. Many of Gus' other regular customers do exactly the same thing. Look at some of Mike Harris' posts, or his Youtube cutting videos, to watch these ongoing transformations in progress... My only point being it is already happening, and has been, probably for as long as Gus has been making threaded tangs.
If you don't want to think of them as "kits" per se, how about just the possibility of supplying spare pommels and guards to interested customers? As things stand a person has to scavenge old ATRIMS off the Marketplace to get these. Why not just turn a profit on an existing need?
As a point of comparison, look at the Japanese-style sword market. I would submit that half the fascination with the Japanese-style sword is ready customizability. Get a Bugei Bamboo? A Dynasty Forge Bushi? Too cookie-cutter? Send it off to Fred Lohman, or Mike Crampton, or Aaron Justice, or Brian Dreier, or Henry Ahmu and two or three months later, an actual sword with some personality. Something you can feel is yours. Better yet, learn to do this sort of work yourself. Even more enjoyable. Have there been some perfectly horrible results with this? Yes, you bet. But there have been some pretty great projects too. And a lot of people who might otherwise have stayed mere "customers" have become amateur craftsmen, with no small amount of skill. Which seems to me like a good thing.
Stepping away from swords for a minute, look at cars. Imagine if the big three automakers refused to sell parts to car enthusiasts? Opting instead to require licensed mechanics and body work specialists for all modifications. Would you keep the cars safe, limit liability, and maintain Detroit's original designs and color schemes? Yes. You would. But you'd also have lost one of the core themes of American culture, the hot rod, the street racer, etc.
The thing is, the people who don't like this approach don't have to engage in it; they can stick with their off the shelf ATrims or their Albions or Del Tins or whatever, and those that do could enjoy some affordable, good quality, semi-customized swords...
...which would be...fun?
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