So far I've done very little in the way of test-cutting, and so far only with water bottles and the like. I had asked for recommendations on another thread, and I got some private replies.

One suggestion was http://www.swordfodder.com/. After reading their descriptions and looking at the video demonstrations, I decided to order a starter kit (which I'm expecting to be delivered today, according to the tracking info), and at least give it a try.

I wanted to ask if anyone had any opinions on how this compares to tatami mats, or if there are other sorts of targets that can be recommended that will help me work on edge alignment and form. I liked the swordfodder FAQ's mentioning of the fact that you can avoid the whole soaking chore that tatami involves, and the fact that it may be safer for your sword if you make some really bad mistakes.

So, any opinions or experiences to relate? Any other types of targets you've worked with that you can also recommend?

Let me lead off by saying that I have absolutely no experience with this company's products.

However, when it comes to studying obsolete martial arts, I'm something of a traditionalist. I'm never going to carry a sword into actual battle, so having a technologically advanced cutting medium seems rather pointless and more than a little out of place, especially when tatami mats are so aesthetically pleasing and worked just fine for people who cut other people up for a living. As for saving time by not having to soak the mats prior to cutting, I’ve always been taught that patience is absolutely central to the study of any martial art, nor do you have to sit there and watch them soak the entire time, so I’m not really feeling the time crunch. And (as per their FAQ) tatami doesn’t small that bad. I lived in a house with tatami floors for two years and was never bothered by the smell.

Looking at it from another angle, my green soul would feel extremely guilty creating large volumes of non-biodegradable (and possibly non-recyclable) synthetic waste just so I could “increase time focusing on mastering martial arts”. At least a water bottle can be tossed into the recycling bin on trash day. Most forms of styrofoam cannot. And grass is grass, whether in a rolled up woven mat or a lawnmower bag. Their FAQ mentions that old tatami can grow mold. To me that means it won’t be contributing to our already overburdened landfills.

Personally, I’d stick with tatami mats. They’ve worked just fine for several centuries now, and they worked in a time when a swordsman’s life depended on his comprehensive knowledge of both his weapon’s capabilities and the medium that his weapon was intended to cut. If a Samurai didn’t feel temporally oppressed by the need to soak a tatami mat, I can’t see how I’m in a bigger hurry.

But that’s me; my bias should be obvious by now and as I said, I’ve never used this company’s product. Please let us know how it measures up. I am actually curious. And if a representative from the company happens to wander through and might be able to answer some of my concerns—perhaps they are recyclable, after all—well, that would be great, too.

I just skimmed, but it looks like foam to me, and I can get that cheaper at the local WalMart.

I've used the Sword-fodder stuff, and I must say I like it. You can try different techniques without risking scratching your blade. You get a better feel than with pool noodles (the foam being more dense).

I'll have to check that book out. Thanks.

I'd assume this is the same basic stuff.

http://www.foambymail.com/packaging.html

Pretty cheap.

It might be similar to the polyfoam or something. It's certainly not one of the softer packing foams, like the eggcrate foam rubber. While dense and stiff, it's also softer than styrofoam. Packing foam may be an alternative worth investigating.

I'm not overly worried about it from an environmental standpoint. I'm more concerned about disposing of my old CRT monitors which actually contain toxic chemicals. Plastics that take a long time to degrade but are otherwise not toxic, and in small quantities, seems less of an issue to me. Especially since I won't be going through a box of targets every week or anything even approaching that.

Anyway, I did some test cutting today with a few of the targets, and I can see how it certainly works as a good medium to aid in practicing proper technique. It's very stubborn material if your attacks are not properly executed, without harming the blade. And when the edge alignment is good, the blade sails through.

I'm definitely very new to this since I trashed a couple of targets before I started getting some nice clean cuts with my katana. Being more of a longsword aficionado, I was frustrated with my difficulty at getting cuts with the Albion Talhoffer and the Cold Steel Hand-and-a-Half. I clearly need more practice. But the katana performed exceedingly well, making up for my lack of skill to some degree.

Okay Keith, I readily admit that I haven't purchased any of these potentially unique and special products from this vendor.

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and if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me...preferably with examples of people cutting something different

You're obviously taking this quite a bit more seriously than I am. I see no need to waste time siting examples of people whacking away at packing products.

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I've never seen this specific density or type of foam available at retail outlets or packaging stores.

There's a packaging store two minutes from where I'm sitting now that sells dense foam packing material that looks just like that. Granted, I've never seen this vendors product, nor do I intend to purchase some to send in for a detailed chemical analysis, so I can add a citation to my opinion. I'll leave that to those who have a dog in this fight.

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However, I'd like to at least see folks trying them before blithely assuming that they're no better than the foam from Walmart.

I don't recall mentioning Wally-World.

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Call me weird and pseudo-scientific

As you say.................... ;)

If Swordfodder wants to sell this stuff to satisfied buyers then more power to them, I could care less. I doubt if they're having this substance made specifically for them, but anything's possible. If people want to use it, more power to them. It looks like it could offer enough resistance to be a good training tool in terms of honing technique. In the end, my opinion is this: all I'm seeing is a marketing attempt by a vendor to convince the buyer they're selling something unique and special, that can in reality be had for less, provided a consumer is willing to do some local leg-work. I don't see anything wrong with that. Afterall, other companies have done a good job of marketing the plebian japanese grass floor mat as a traditional cutting medium. :D

The softer "student" targets seem somewhat similar to some of the foam packaging I've seen on high-end rackmount server equipment. The "master" targets are considerably more dense, and I don't recall seeing packaging that is quite so stiff, but it's possible. I don't know where swordfodder.com gets the foam, but I can already see the value as an instructive cutting medium.

I recently tried out cutting against the sword fodder targets. Eh. They're okay, I guess, but I don't think they're anything special. Particularly for the price. For starters, you need a very sharp sword with a very acute edge geometry in order to cut the targets, otherwise you have to modify your technique to the point where you're not really practicing martial arts anymore, you're practicing foam cutting.

It's strange that they call the denser foam the "master" targets, and imply they are tougher to cut. Both seem to just behave differently. The "student" targets were much more flimsy, and most swords just batted them around. Ed Toton brought out a katana of his that had a very fine edge and thin blade, and it sliced and diced the target with almost no effort. However, against the master target, it had a great deal of trouble. On the other hand, we used an AT 1592 against the master target, and again, there was no trouble cutting. But when we used the AT1592 against the student target, it wouldn't so much as even bite into it.

All of the other swords we tried to use (AT1520, AT1593, ATrim sidesword, Albion Talhoffer, Albion Viceroy, and a couple others that are slipping my memory at the moment) had incredibly hard times even biting into the material. These are quite sharp swords, and I have no problems cutting other materials such as tatami with these types of blades. But as mentioned, to cut the sword fodder targets with them we had to modify our technique to the point where we weren't using realistic techniques anymore (for example, moving the feet and hips before moving the blade, which is a huge no-no).

This was actually a big disappointment to me, because this was finally a target that I felt could use with my students in evening classes indoors over our nice wood fencing floors. In the end, though, it turned out to be a bust. You either need a specific sword for either type of foam to even make a cut (a very unrealistic thing), or else you need to practice cutting in a way that isn't martial arts anymore.