It was my understanding that TYPICALLY a full haubegeon from the late 14th, early 15th century was 15-20lbs with some approaching 25lbs at times.

Not unlike the flat riveted stuff we see from GDFB and Jeffery Hedgecock...


Johan is very right. I make every effort to wear my haubergeon under my Churburg kit as often as possible, unless I'm doing SCA style fighting during the summer. But for my WMA instructing and fighting, I've almost always wearing my haubergeon.

I have the chance to buy a good 17th c. Persian coif--not the tourist stuff from the 19th c. It's all riveted, round, and nicely done on good metal. And available for pennies on the dollar of what it should cost.

My question--and this may be a supremely stupid question--is--do I want to buy it to use with my late 14th c. Italian kit?. I would literally cut it up and refashion it to size, thus destroying it as an historical object. No, this doesn't worry me at all. Museums are full of them, and modifying it for combat is just what people have done to kit throughout the ages.
My question is, will I end up with a nice, historical chain coif or aventail, or will I end up with a 17th c. Persian ringed aventail? Is the Persian maille enough like the "real thing" to be better than commercially available items? Better? the same? Worse?

It SEEMS both lighter and more like the aventails attached to at least one existing 14th c. bascinet. But my ignorance is fathomless...

I agree with Paul, no one in this hobby should ever destroy or damage (even if you call it a modification) any historical artifact. What's the point historical reenactment or living history if we are going to destroy all the history around us? By doing so you are getting rid of a irreplaceable part of the past, doesn't matter if their are other pieces. Imagine if we had a few more pieces of armor or swords, how much more could they tell us? We will never know.

@Johan Gemvik\\

What harness weighs 12kg? I have never heard of a full harness that weighed less than 45lbs.

I don't agree. I understand, but there are so many items in circulation...

I carry 18th c. items to reenact the 18th c.--swords, watches, jewelry--precisely because they are original and allow me to show the public EXACTLY what an 18th c. watch looked like--and how well it still runs. And the argument you both make is utterly rational--and yet, would, by logical extension, suggest that we shouldn't conduct archaeology (we disturb the sites and ruin more artifacts than are preserved...) and we shouldn't have museums (where artifacts are constantly tinkered with and damaged,. and if you think otherwise, you haven't worked in one!).

I grew up with artifacts--and I don't think they're special unless they are. Every item in my basement is an artifact in the making--but most of them are only worth preserving in a sort of transcendent long range kind of way.

But okay--if I could preserve the item--if I could leave the chain untouched--would it be a BETTER representation? because from what I can see, none of the GDFB or Indian mailles bear any resemblance to medieval maille...

Okay. I surrender. I was asking that very question, Dan. IS it correct?

Apparently not, but was the tone required? It was meant as a genuine and respectful question. And I appeal to anyone who has ever seen a museum mount a major exhibit--you know they break Egyptian columns, duct tape chariot wheels, etc, right? Historical objects have no sacred presence.

But I apologize if I've offended, and I'll go back to my hole.

Dan,

I have seen you share a great deal of your opinions on armor over various threads. It seems to me that you have some level of expertise regarding mail.

I still have not made my purchase, but per the recommendations of others I am planning on getting this piece What do you think?

Would you have anything positive to say about anything on the market today? Can you make me a recommendation? I'm not looking for what not to get as much as I am looking for a positive recommendation.

What do you want it for? If you want something that kind of looks like medieval mail then any of the mass produced stuff is ok. It is lighter and more protective than the butted mail that people used to wear. Most of the riveted mail is all made in the same workshops in India and Pakistan and sold to different distributors so it doesn't really matter who you buy it from. May as well google for the cheapest price.

If you want something that functions the same as historical mail then you buy it from Erik. AFAIK nobody else commercially makes museum quality mail. A few other people can make mail that looks and functions a lot like the originals but they do it for research not for sale.

I got my maille at Ice falcon armories which I was impressed by the quality, if you want a smaller sized garment and a more accurate looking early medieval hauberk then go for their stuff I highly suggest it as it's better tailored than the GDFB hauberk which my friend bought and in his words he said it was made for someone with bingo wings. Their stuff only comes in large and XL as well leaving a lot of extra weight if you're a thinner person. For the shorter shirt I am not sure how their stuff is.

Sorry if this is digging up an old thread, but lots of useful info here.

What do you think to the long-sleeve shirt posted here? Full dimensions for the sleeve and taper are given.

http://www.getdressedforbattle.co.uk/acatalog...sades.html

It is not toooo expensive. I understand that the exact ring shape is not what it would have been, but I'm asking mainly about the fit.

Hello,

The mail I have been purchasing is from Find-It Armory. The quality is basically the same as the GDFB/CAS-Hanwei stuff except that it is zinc-plated (easy to remove). I own three shirts that I have tailored, the Flat Ring Full Sleeve, the 8mm "Roman Hamata" half sleeve, and a 6mm Roman Hamata with attached doublet and no sleeves. The 8mm and 6mm have alternating rows of flat punched rings and round riveted ones. The "8mm" one I own is my favourite, the size of the flat rings is about 8mm and the riveted rings about 7mm. The size of the rings and the alternating rows are correct for the time period I am trying to represent, once it was de-zinced and tailored it is pretty close to historical examples. It is far from perfect, but is better than any of the other examples I have seen.

The flat-ring one has overly thin rings, but this is the same on most of the flat-ring indian made mail I've seen. The 6mm looks a little off, but is still great, off-the-rack it is the best mail I have seen.

Cheers!