I can understand the frustration of Mr Fletcher...

But man, lets get real, you made a poor choice for a custom sword and that why and only why it doesnt sell, its why you didnt like it and ultimately its why this thing escalated. And since this thing escalated here on myArmoury and that most of Tinker customers subscribe here you basically shot yourself in the foot. Either the readers like Tinker and then will not help you or either they dont like him and will not buy his stuff ( very unlikely ). You should have kept this sword. I'm sure it handle like a dream and that its perfectly done. Most of all Its done with your specs !

I own a sword done by Michael Pierce, the one on the cover of his book, its a marvelous sword not even a custom i ordered done to my specs and i'm proud to own a piece of this guy work, thats how i think you should have felt. Sure you are entitled to think otherwise but still you had the opportunity to own a Tinker sword and it was done to your specs, thats something. Either you like it or not.

If you had kept this sword and sold it on the second hand market you would have get more than the 750$ or so you got from the credit company and without putting Michael in this situation, believe me, those guys dont make big money in this business, and that blow is surely hurting him more than you can possibly think : He's a normal guy with bills to pay, not a big name company ! The profit he made from the sword i bought from him was used to replace his lawnmower not to buy himself a solid gold toilet. And that why you get so many bad comments :) You would have bought a sword lets say from Albion/Hanwei ( a company ) and would have got a lemon with obvious defaults everyone would be on your side and supporting you but your situation is far from this, very far.

I must say that i rarely side with sellers, but this time i cant see any valid points coming out from your situation.
I'm a customer service manager with many years of experience and your claim isnt worth the time i put in writing this 'cause your not fighting Walmart here, your discrediting an artist who have put his sweat on YOUR project and have delivered it, you approved it then backed off. Get your pants on and live with it man. You are probably making more money than this amazing artist that you have been blessed to hold one of his creation that was made to your tastes and demands. If you back off a Tinker sword then i'm kinda sure that no one will ever make a sword to your tastes.

Michael I'm with you man ! You got overboard for this guy and he's still trying to get you down, you delivered the goods, you are an artist who's name will continue to live on more than you can even think of, you did what you had to do : stay proud.

Amen! Seriously, the thing might not be selling because it's made to be like a production peice. Per your request. Oops. :idea:

These days I try to avoid posts like these, but I have to say that Jean-François Picard makes a lot of sense. Personally, if I were you Harry, I'd send that $750 back to Mr. Pearce and get my sword back. When you work with an artist to create a vision, the vision is not yours alone. It evolves from a relationship between the maker and the client. Your work evolved along these lines, fitting Mr. Pearce's idea of what you expected from him for his services.

You need to get over yourself. I do custom work of my own (in leather and wood) and would never tell a customer that what I deliver will be *exactly* what they want, because that is impossible to do unless by sheer coincidence. If you want something just how you like it, you have to do it yourself, or else accept concessions in details. That's the bottom line.

-Gregory J. Liebau

The original topic regarding this issue was removed because it ended up being a giant pain in the ass to deal with. It was filled with personal attacks and other nonsense that was out of bounds. This topic is also filled with such attacks as well.

I'll be clear: any additional personal attacks will result in me removing posting privileges. Seriously, people on all sides of this issue need to conduct themselves better. This is a bunch of junk.

If you have any questions or comments about my administrative notice here, you can contact me in private about it. I can't promise how much patience I'll exhibit in my response to you so be warned.

The issue presented here is that Mr. Pearce has both the sword and the money. He cannot keep both. That is the issue here and the only relevant issue.

Harry,

Consider this: everyone else is rarely wrong. You came here to express your dissatisfaction, and have been repeatedly told that:

a) you bought a sword designed to your specs. You didn't like it. Many manufacturers would say "too bad." At that point, it was no longer Tinker's sword - it was yours;

b) Tinker agreed to take it on consignment. That is not having "your sword and your money" - this is how consignment works. This happens in the antique business, for example, all the time. When it sells you get paid, not before. If you didn't want that arrangement, you should not have sent back the sword;

c) You then issued a charge back, so now you have half of your money back and a sword sitting on consignment. I realize that you think Tinker was in the wrong here, too, but honestly, I can't agree, for the reasons in point "b";

d) Seeing as you keep insisting on your point, and no one at myArmoury seems to agree, I don't understand what you really are hoping to accomplish here. If get resolution through the court of public opinion, you are shooting yourself in the foot with these. I think people have told you what the story is: either swap $750 for the sword and keep or sell it privately, or wait it out. People aren't jumping to your defense because they don't agree with either your position or how you have conducted yourself.

IMO, since you don't trust Tinker, you should take possession of the sword back and do with it whatever you wish - but you will need to recompense the $750 to do that. It isn't the resolution you want, but it *is* a resolution. Truly, I am sorry that you were so dissatisfied, but I also think that the way you handled the proceedings made it far more contentious than needed, and your stubborn insistence on your position is making it worse yet.

All accusatory and inequitable predispositions aside, the funny thing about this situation is that I wish someone would just buy the sword and solve the whole problem. Heck, I would even gladly get that sword if I had the disposable cash, but as we all know times are fairly tight these days. It might be good for someone to have on hand, since the end of the world is nigh, lol.

One thing though, I firmly believe that a full refund would not be warranted under any circumstance, either original or as the situation developed, since fair is fair all around. Also importantly, I'm sorry to have gotten on your case so hard, Harry....

with all of Mr. Fletchers complaints about this sword, some people may think that it is not a very good sword or that it is too much like the production version. as It happens I was talking to Gus about this sword when this topic first came up and he told me he had handled the sword and liked it. in fact I think his exact words were "I thought the guy getting it was a lucky fellow." Gus and I have both handled the Chinese production model GSOW from Hanwei and I can tell you for sure that the production GSOW would never get such praise from Gus.

my point here is that Gus and I have very similar tastes in swords and if he liked it I'm sure I would too and being that he IS Angus Trim, I'm quite sure that it is a good sword and worth the price Tinker is asking not to mention quite different from the production GSOW. the only criticism I could have on this sword is that I don't much care for the aesthetic appearence of the leather wrap, but this is easily fixed. even if Mr. fletcher can't or has no desire to do it himself he could get a rewrap done for very little money (there are many fine cutlers in our community who could do this for under $100 and it would be dead sexy when they were done with it) and still have not spent more than the sword is worth in my mind.

Mr Pearce should have had enough professional ability to have ensured the grip was properly done in the first place and not coming apart as it was before he shipped it. Also, as you mentioned the asthetics were not pleasing at all. Why should I be obligated to fix something that should have been done correctly in the first place and at the price I was charged?

The other consideration is that I stressed to Mr. Pearce that I wanted the pommel hot peened on the tang. This was a major specification and one that Mr. Pearce ignored. These deficiencies called the whole piece into question and it was returned.

For $1450 I expected attention to detail and a professional piece of work to be furnished. I am not in the business of subsidizing artists at my expense.

The sword was returned to Mr. Pearce. I never agreed to anything with Mr. Pearce except for a return of my money. I gave him adequate to sell the sword to facilitate the refund. He was not forthcoming to my inquiries and I took action to recover part of the money I paid. He still has possession of the sword and owes the balance of $750 on the refund to me. He cannot keep both the sword and the money.

This one is simple...

Sword has not sold...

Mr Fletcher will now get the balance due of half of the original payment once the sword is sold...

The only update I would be interested in reading is if the sword sold and Mr Fletcher did not receive the half amount due back...

Update when sword sells...

I really want to know how this whole thing turns out. If I never find out I will feel so cheated. :)

Not having a peened pommel per request and a grip substandard are major issues. I would think Tinker would want to remedy this. Did he offer this solution? If he did along with a little bit off the purchase price for the inconvenience is all that would be due to you. If he offered to fix the sword and still offered consignment then I feel he has gone beyond to make you happy. If the type XIII with green grip on his website is your sword then I would be extremly proud to have in my collection if it was peened and re-gripped. I can not side with you but i certainly can imagine your dissapointment given the issues.

In case anybody was wondering about the original terms of the custom order, the following was taken straight from Tinker's website. There is some very cool stuff on there, btw.

Please take note of the bold passages:

TinkerSwords.Com Custom Orders wrote:

Custom orders for swords are done on the following basis- I keep a number of heat-treated blade-blanks for swords on-hand; call to see what is available. If I have a blankl on-hand that is suited to what you want and we reach an agreement as to the price I will proceed to make it. Circumstances allowing this will take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. If I do not have a blank on-hand to make your swords it may still be done but may take significantly longer to complete. You will not be required to put down a deposit. When the item is completed I'll send pictures and specs for your approval. You will not be obliged to accept the finished piece if it doesn't please you. If the finished piece doesn't work for you, I'll adjust it to suit or simply post it for sale and we go our seperate ways, no harm, no foul. I've been using this system of doing things for several years now and it has mostly worked to everyone's satisfaction. Now the conditions- This will work only if everyone acts in good faith. When you order a piece you have to be prepared to pay for it upon approval and bear in mind that it might be ready very quickly. OK, stuff happens- unexpected expenses crop up all the time; if you cannot take delivery let me know ASAP. I'll undertsand, trust me. I may at times prefer to simply post a piece for sale rather than modifying it if you don't approve the finished piece. It's an artistic thing; sometimes a blade comes out 'right' and I am loathe to change it. If this occurs I keep an eye on the blanks and if a suitable blank comes along we'll try it again with specs better suited to what you want.

I'm sure that many forum members were originally wondering just how, if all those conditions were truly followed, did a product get delivered without prior approval? Wasn't the blade exactly what was ordered? Wasn't the grip what was ordered, albeit needing rework or adjustment? Weren't the cross guard and pommel true to designed specs, albeit needing to be peened? Couldn't the sword and scabbard just have been sent back for a simple rework and peening at the maker's cost? All this is a bit baffling when you realize that the product actually seemed to have fit almost every aspect to the tee, especially after having been designed and commissioned exactly that way by the customer, and even based upon a Hanwei/Tinker production piece of the very same style already in his possession. The manufacturing mistake of not making the sword peened also let it be very easily serviceable to address any rework issues.

So, where was the real problem? In all fairness, it all didn't seem to make a full refund warranted in my opinion. I could be wrong though...

I have not seen the original thread so I don't know exactly what is the customer problem with the sword but the risk with that:

TinkerSwords.Com Custom Orders wrote:

When the item is completed I'll send pictures and specs for your approval.

is that some flaws could conceivably not be apparent in either pictures or specs.

So if you approve the picture but not the sword when you have it in hand and can get a more thorough look, what happens? It seems to me that the fair course of action is to cancel the whole thing out, but apparently that's not what happened. I thought there were regulations about online buying that allowed the customer to send back an item if it's not what he expected.

I for one am not sure I'd risk buying a custom item without any ways to check it in person before the transaction is irreversibly over, even if I could have refused it after completion but before shipping. It seems like a strange rule :confused:

Regards,

Thank you Nathan and Vincent. The rest seem to be missing the point , as I have stated before that Mr. Pearce had a professional and contractual responsibility to insure that the sword met quality and specifications standards which he did not.

For those of you unfamiliar with hot peening, this may seem a minor issue but in my view it was a very serious issue. Reworking the tang at this point would have resulted in an inferior tang and hence overall quality of the blade. I stressed this specification to Mr. Pearce as well as rounding the shoulders of the tang blade juncture. If the specification was not done how could I be sure that the second was done?

Legally, I was within my rights to return the sword to Mr. Pearce as verified by the credit card company's agreemen with me and hence the charge back. Anyway this is a moot point.

The issue now is that Mr. Pearce legally obligated to refund the rest of my money, $750.00. I allowed him enough time to sell this before taking any action and he did not respond hence the charge back. I gave him additional months to refund the balance and he refuses to pay the balance. It has now been 10 months since the sword has been returned. He may not keep both the sword and the money which is the crux of the current situation.