Randall Moffett wrote: |
Pieter,
I tried to find anything like that and can up empty handed. I have no idea where he got that but that is nto in the commissions of arrays I have seen and I spent a very health part of my PhD reading over them all from 1300-1500.... As to how they were setup this has been debated for some type Burne I thinkis the first to come up with the block of MAA and archers on the wings. Another choice is that each battle had this setup Or that all the group was mixed somehow. I think it likely varies. Some of the later Burgundian accounts seem to indicate archers were to learnt o fight with bows from behind the MAA! Barwick and Smith both exaggerate the weakness or value of archery so you need to be careful. Just like today they seem to have gotten a bit emotional in their debate. I think the reality is you have a much higher chance if dying or bad wounds where you have no armour so that is sensible. Monstrelet mentions shields as well which makes the hundreds of shield you see in the accounts going to war make sense. RPM |
The way the French guy described the setup seems more or less what Master WA depicts in his Sketch of Burgundian archers, stakes in front and polearm armed troops behind the archers allowing them to shoot clearly and be protected from cavalry. I know that one of the ordonance's tells officers to train their archers and pikemen to work together. The pikemen were told to lower their pike to the height of a horse's back bend over a little to allow archers to shoot over their back. As far as I can tell those pikemen were arranged in a single rank and acted as a mobile row of stakes. I do not recall MAA acting as such in those ordonances but if you know an account where they do I'd like to hear about it.
The Ordonannce of 1471 also has some stuff on the thickness of padded garments which you may find interesting.
http://legioburgundiae.unblog.fr/category/ord...s-de-1471/
Quote: |
L'archer sera monté sur un cheval de 10 écus au moins, habillé d'une jaque à haut collet tenant lieu de gorgerin, avec bonnes manches; il portera une cotte de mailles ou paletot de haubergerie dessous cette jaque qui sera de 12 toiles au moins dont 3 de toile cirée et 9 de toile commune. |
Quote: |
The archer will be mounted on a horse worth at least 10 ecu, wearing a high collar jack in lieu of a gorget, with good sleeves; He will wear a coat of mail or a hauberk/gon overcoat below the jack which is to at least 12 layers thick of which at least 3 are waxed/oiled and 9 of common canvas |
It does not saying anything about the presence or absence of stuffing nor what is to be worn under the mail itself.
The later Ordonannce says something a little different.
http://legioburgundiae.unblog.fr/category/ord...s-de-1472/
Quote: |
La jaque qui couvre le paletot de haubergerie sera de 10 toiles (au lieu de 12) |
As for those English writers. I noticed that they had something 'invested' in their discussion but it's not the actual usefulness of longbows in the late sixteenth century I was talking about. I just found it striking their response to an arrow shower seems to be identical and thereby more likely to be true.