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A. Jake Storey II




Location: USA
Joined: 11 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Falcon style         Reply with quote

My Brother-In-Law is one of those people who know a little about everything, while watching Star Wars III he mentioned that Anikan's style resembled the “Falcon” fighting style, all the guards were high over the head. I reasrecently, and belatedly, watched Kingdom of Heaven and they showed the same “Falcon” style. I was wondering how much fact is in this, where, when, and by whom it was used, and anything else anybody might know. In a book, which I can’t seem to remember the name of, they described William Wallace as using this style (they didn’t use the name Falcon, just said all his defense, and offence came from above), how much fact might be in this? Most of my "Martial Arts" in the area of eropean sword fighting are actualy more along the lines of friends sparing; so, this is, more thene anything, a inquiry into the "real" thing.
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not in Liechtenauer's style, which is the only style I currently have any reading into -- the closest in that style to the "Guard of the Hawk" mentioned in KoH is the Vom Tag, which is similar. The Baron of Ibelen mentions it is an Italian thing, and Liechtenauer is German, so I guess my point is moot :-/

M.
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Michael Olsen





Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr, 2007 9:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The mid-fifteenth century English Harleian Manuscript on swordplay purports a strike named the 'hawk'. This is presumably a downward strike, akin to the German oberhau. There is also a 'half-hawk' strike, presumably something somewhat quicker and less involved than a full 'hawk'.

I believe Fiore has a 'Posta di Falcon' - Guard of the Falcon. I recall this being a vom tag-like position, with the sword help up over the shoulder.

I don't know of an entire fighting style built around the Falcon, however. The English school brings in all sorts of other attacks, springs, rounds, and so forth. And Fiore has a myriad of other non-Falcon techniques.

Edit: I just did a bit of googling around the net, and found a number of references to the 'falcon-style'. All, as I expected, were made in reference to "fantasy" swordplay. I have yet to see any actual martial art (modern or otherwise), present an actual falcon-style of martial art.

Michael Olsen
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Alberto Dainese




Location: Padova - Italy
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PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Olsen wrote:

I believe Fiore has a 'Posta di Falcon' - Guard of the Falcon. I recall this being a vom tag-like position, with the sword help up over the shoulder.


I believe it's a ward described by italian master Filippo Vadi in his "de Arte Gladiatoria Dimicandi" in the eigthies of XVc, and yes, it's more or less a vom Tag position.
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Malcolm A




Location: Scotland, UK
Joined: 22 Mar 2005

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Jake,
I posted a question about the same topic some time ago after seeing hte Kingdon of Heaven film.

See http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ght=falcon

I did a quick search against the [url]Arte Gladiatoria [/url]and found Vadi's manuscript or at least sort of translation thereof.

I got the impression that there was no actual style of sword fighting called the The Style of the Hawk, more that one or two people used the term Hawk for specific postures / attacks.
Hope the two links above work and that you find out what you need.
Good luck

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Michael Olsen





Joined: 28 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alberto Dainese wrote:
I believe it's a ward described by italian master Filippo Vadi in his "de Arte Gladiatoria Dimicandi" in the eigthies of XVc, and yes, it's more or less a vom Tag position.


Right. See what happens when I post too late at night? WTF?!

Michael Olsen
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Nicholas Zeman





Joined: 09 May 2005

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue 24 Apr, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Posta Falcone, as far as I know, is only in the Vadi treatise of the 15th century. It is a high guard, held with the blade vertical, on the right side similar to the Vom Tag guard in the German tradition. It is not in any of Fiore's work, which instead uses Posta di Donna, a high guard but with the point back instead of high.

As far as "style" of the falcon, I think your brother was confusing Star Wars or Kingdom of Heaven with reality. Hollywood is famous for emphasizing what looks or sounds cool over historical accuracy. In real life, there is no style of an animal, like Kung Fu, using swords. Guards were sometimes named after animals as a mnemonic device, and to describe their actions. Like Dente de Chingiare, which is the Tooth of the Wild Boar, a low guard held on the left.
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Apr, 2007 12:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Or the Ochs, which is a guard with the tip of the blade pointing twords the opponent.

M.

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