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Jack Geratic

Joined: 23 Feb 2007

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 12:33 pm    Post subject: 13th century french knight         Reply with quote

hello everyone .... I'm looking at building El Viejo Dragon's 54mm mounted knight, but I have questions or need of general guidlines for historical accuracy.
I've chose the heraldry of Ferry de CHAMBLEY which is Sable semy de lis or overall a cross argent. The knight would be from early 13th century. I am not sure what colour to use for the sleeveless surcoat and the horse's caparison, as well if heraldry would be present on these two items. If heraldry is present, would the cloth be a single colour and the heraldry be shown as a shield? Or would it be a pattern of golden fleur de lis on a black background. Perhaps it is the knight's wealth that determines how lavish his clothing appears as opposed to time period?
Looking at various Osprey books on the subject doesn't give definite answers - then again, perhaps that is the answer.

-picture of the model kit:;P2=CG09

-CHAMBLEY heraldy:
click 'Early Rolls' .....'Lorains Part 1' .... Chambly is number 537 on list
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Richard Fay

Location: Upstate New York
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Reading list: 256 books

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Posts: 782

PostPosted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all!


Surcoats of the early thirteenth century didn't always bear the knight's heraldic devices. It may be just a bit later than you're shooting for, but have you looked at some of the images from the Maciejowski Bible? This is a French manuscript of circa 1250. It shows the range of colours that surcoats might have borne. I don't believe any of the surcoats on the knights in that work bear heraldic devices.

There is a drawing of a knight by Matthew Paris of around the same time that shows the knight's surcoat peppered with crosses, but it may have been more of a statement by the artist than an actual garment.

I would say that the shield should definitely bear the arms, but the surcoat can be coloured more plainly, with one hue.

Check out the images below. The ones from the Maciejowski Bible and the one by Matthew Paris are from circa 1250, while the others are from a French manuscript of the late thirteenth century, and the thirteenth century manuscript Life of St. Edward, respectively.

I hope this helped!

Stay safe!

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Maciejowski Bible, circa 1250..jpg
Maciejowski Bible, circa 1250.

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Maciejowski Bible, circa 1250 2.jpg
Maciejowski Bible, circa 1250.

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Maciejowski Bible, circa 1250 3.jpg
Maciejowski Bible, circa 1250.

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Miniature by Matthew Paris, circa 1250.

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cleric, knight, and workman.jpg
Cleric, knight, and workman, late thirteenth century.
Copyright The British Library Board

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Life of King St Edward, 13th century..jpg
Life of St. Edward, thirteenth century.

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
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