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Brandon B




PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2006 11:13 am    Post subject: I.33 Sword and Shield (sword and buckler)         Reply with quote

I have compiled a list of the seven wards plus three others in the sword and shield book. The appropriate stance and counters to those wards are listed below each ward. At the end of the list of wards, I have included original photos of the wards with corresponding numbers. So for all those Medieval Sword and Shield fans, here you go! The swords in the background are a couple of mine, on the Left is an Albion Squire, to the Right is the Squire line 13th C. Knightly.
Enjoy, Brandon



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I.33 Sword and Shield wards & counters [ Download ]

May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight


Last edited by Brandon B on Mon 01 Jan, 2007 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have moved this topic to the Off-topic Talk forum.

Please note the description for this forum:

"Discussions of general history and other miscellaneous topics relating to arms and armour that do not specifically fit our other forums"

Thank you.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Brandon B




PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Moved to off topic         Reply with quote

Thanks Chad, I was thinking about asking you if I posted it right. What do you think of my compilation?
May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight
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J. Bedell




Location: Maryland, USA
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Reading list: 7 books

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PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a very nice quick reference resource! This is very helpful, thank you for taking the time to put this together to share with us!

-James

The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
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Brandon B




PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2006 2:30 pm    Post subject: I.33 Sword and Shield Counter photo's         Reply with quote

Here is the list of counters all but Left Cover. I couldn't find a good photo for that one. The order of the counters follows my list for Wards starting with the Underarm counter. After I placed them in order for appropriate counters to the underarm ward, I listed the remaining counters in order of the following wards. Hope you enjoy the guide!


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Photo's of ward counters [ Download ]

May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight
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Brandon B




PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Bedell wrote:
thank you for taking the time to put this together to share with us!

-James


You're very welcome! My wife thinks I am nuts, but how fun it is to make a quick reference guide for the oldest Medieval sword fighting handbook.

May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight
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Stephen Hand




Location: Hobart, Australia
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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Posts: 225

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice work Brandon. I see you're using our book. Do you have a copy of Spada II which includes a paper updating the material in Medieval Sword and Shield? It's well worth a look if you're serious about the system.

Cheers
Stephen

Stephen Hand
Editor, Spada, Spada II
Author of English Swordsmanship, Medieval Sword and Shield

Stoccata School of Defence
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Brandon B




PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stephen Hand wrote:
I see you're using our book. Do you have a copy of Spada II"
Stephen


Thanks Stephen! When I told my wife the author of the book (that I love reading) commented on my quick reference guide, she thought that was really cool. Anything to help justify my fun interest in medieval times. I admit I do feel privileged to hear from you. What additions does Spada II add to your book Medieval Sword and Shield?

May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight


Last edited by Brandon B on Mon 01 Jan, 2007 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stephen Hand




Location: Hobart, Australia
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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Posts: 225

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jan, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dear Brandon,

I've changed and added a bunch of stuff. I've changed the way we interpret some of the guard positions - in some cases the artwork was ambiguous, in other cases we just got it wrong. Some of the changes have minor implications for technique, some have major implications. I've changed some techniques (most notably the change of sword) for a variety of reasons. I also present the choices that are available to you at each stage of the fight in what I think is a much clearer way. None of our basic ideas on the principles of the system have needed changing. In fact every re-interpretation has made our version of I.33 simpler and more systematic.

Basically it's the result of two more years of looking at the system and also of two more years of other people looking at our interpretation of the system and asking useful questions.

Cheers
Stephen

Stephen Hand
Editor, Spada, Spada II
Author of English Swordsmanship, Medieval Sword and Shield

Stoccata School of Defence
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J. Bedell




Location: Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 01 Jan, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got Sword and Shield for christmas and its great! I am trying to actually learn to fight with a sword and buckler so I suppose I will need to get Spada II to go along with it. With Stephen's book and Brandon's quick guides the learning process is really starting off great! Thanks Stephen and Brandon!

-James

The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Mon 01 Jan, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: I.33 Sword and Shield Counter photo's         Reply with quote

Brandon B wrote:
Here is the list of counters all but Left Cover. I couldn't find a good photo for that one.


As far as I gather, Left Cover is regular Halfshield, and follows the same mechanics as underarm. This again is why there are no good pictures; It has been covered allready under the First Ward.

Don't have my book with me, though.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Brandon B




PostPosted: Mon 01 Jan, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: I.33 Left Cover         Reply with quote

Actually according to Medieval Sword and Shield Left cover looks like the crutch position with the buckler passed under the sword arm with the point downwards and the right foot forward. This leaves the left hand open for attack. For more information look at pages 173 to to 179 in the Medieval Sword and Shield. The counter that looks like half shield only with the buckler under the sword arm, is Right Cover. On the picture I listed he is holding it quite high.
May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight


Last edited by Brandon B on Mon 01 Jan, 2007 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Greyson Brown




Location: Windsor, Colorado
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PostPosted: Mon 01 Jan, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I picked up Spada II yesterday. I haven't had a chance to read much of it, but I did flip through. The changes to interpertation of I.33 are very interesting. I especially noticed that the reinterpertation of the Priest's Special Longpoint seems like it would have a major difference on how it is employed. I would recomend picking it up.

The article on the reality of sword wounds also looks like it will be very enlightening, as well.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Brandon B




PostPosted: Mon 01 Jan, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Spada II         Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips Stephen and Grey. I have a copy of Spada II http://www.myArmoury.com/books/item.php?ASIN=1891448358 in the mail, and on its way. Sure will be fun to read it. Thanks again, Brandon
May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight
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Hugo Voisine





Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would second Greyson concerning the Priest's Special Longpoint. I got Spada II for Christmas and found this new interpretation very interesting. Happy The article made a lot things clearer.

The other articles are very worth reading too. I specially liked the article on the effect of puncturing wounds and the one concerning the partisan (now I just have to get two of them from A&A... Laughing Out Loud ).

Edit : Those pics would made good posters too hang on the walls of a training room.

« Que dites-vous ?... C'est inutile ?... Je le sais !
Mais on ne se bat pas dans l'espoir du succès !
Oh ! non, c'est bien plus beau lorsque c'est inutile ! »


Last edited by Hugo Voisine on Tue 02 Jan, 2007 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brandon B




PostPosted: Tue 02 Jan, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Spada II         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. Hugo. I can't wait to get my own copy and see what Stephen has added. I am sure it will be fun to read. I love learning the true method behind sword fighting madness.
May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight
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Brandon B




PostPosted: Thu 26 Nov, 2009 8:44 am    Post subject: I.33 videos & saftey gear         Reply with quote

Does anybody have any videos of them practicing the I.33? Also has anyone seen Hammaborg equipment they use? http://www.hammaborg.de/en/ausruestung/start.php there is a link to their website. I am trying to find out a fairly inexpensive way to find gear, and start a small fencing group. I like the fast pace style of the Hammaborg boys. I would appreciate any advice with someone with experience. I have Medieval Sword and Shield by Steven Hand as well as Spada 2, but am looking for some videos to see some techniques practiced.

Any help would be great, thanks, Brandon

May God grant us the wisdom to discover the right, the strength to choose it, and the will to make it endure. - First Knight
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Ben P.




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PostPosted: Thu 26 Nov, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks! Big Grin That's really cool
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Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
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Posts: 677

PostPosted: Thu 26 Nov, 2009 8:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I've got Spada I, Spada II, and Medieval Sword and Shield Razz
But I concur with the before mentioned comments.
And I too thinks that (in a higher resolution) that'd make a sweet poster full stop. Laughing Out Loud

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Roland Warzecha





Joined: 27 Jan 2009

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat 28 Nov, 2009 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: I.33 videos & saftey gear         Reply with quote

Brandon B wrote:
Does anybody have any videos of them practicing the I.33? Also has anyone seen Hammaborg equipment they use? http://www.hammaborg.de/en/ausruestung/start.php there is a link to their website. I am trying to find out a fairly inexpensive way to find gear, and start a small fencing group. I like the fast pace style of the Hammaborg boys. I would appreciate any advice with someone with experience. I have Medieval Sword and Shield by Steven Hand as well as Spada 2, but am looking for some videos to see some techniques practiced.

Any help would be great, thanks, Brandon


Hi Brandon,

you may care to note that we put a couple of buckler technique clips online over the years. If you refer to them, please check the title, because many are by now out-dated. We say so in the title but left them online because many sites and forum threads have linked to them, plus, they show the development in interpretation.

In fact, these are the sole I.33 vdeos I still consider valid, safe for some details:

Third Ward & Cover
... though point is too erect in Cover. Should be a point down hanger like in the original plate.

First Ward & Halpschilt Note what looks like a tap with the sword is a vicious forward slicing cut.

Here is a useful drill. Though for correct posture, adopt Sixth Ward with the swordarm at the chest, twist the wrist counterclockwise in the guard. Feels awkward but helps to deliver the thrust in a cork-screw motion which stabilizes the thrust (much like a bullet).
Don't duck your head as much as I do in the clip, no good for neck tendants.
Keep the shield square-on like in the manual, not at an angle.
Weak of the blade should stay in touch with the shield in the Ward and in the thrust.

Hope that helps.

Roland
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