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Daniel Higgins





Joined: 30 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Oct, 2006 9:29 pm    Post subject: convex viking shield?         Reply with quote

How would I go about making a convex/concave? viking shield with a boss??? You can probably guess Im trying to replicate Boromir's shield, but I have no idea where to start other than with something like a viking type, but pressed? into a convex shape? Please, any advice would be helpful!
Dan



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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 2:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim Noyes at Heron Armoury used to have convex plywood shield blanks on his site, but they've disappeared now. However, it does suggest that it can be done with that medium (but then again, the disappearance may suggest it is not altogether satisfactory - just guessing). Steam bending (or, if they are thick enough, carving) individual planks to fit edge to edge and butt jointing them to build up your shape would probably be closer to an 'authentic' method, but I'd be inclined to make it less authentic by using dowel plugs for strength. That aside, I vaguely recall that there has been a thread mentioning this subject that you might try searching for on this site.
Geoff
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 7:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This isn't really an answer to your question (because I don't know how to do it), but as a thought, it seems impractical to make a round shield concave. If you're gripping the shield at the boss, your forearm will be very uncomfortable with the curve. Kite shields that are concave are held with the straps more vertical, where there isn't a bend in the wood.
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Daniel Higgins





Joined: 30 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was looking more for making a replica than a reenactment piece, but I dont think that slight of a bend should make it uncomfortable....... what would you call this type of shield to look it up?
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Geoff Wood




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
This isn't really an answer to your question (because I don't know how to do it), but as a thought, it seems impractical to make a round shield concave. If you're gripping the shield at the boss, your forearm will be very uncomfortable with the curve. Kite shields that are concave are held with the straps more vertical, where there isn't a bend in the wood.


Mr Grandy
I'd agree to a degree if the shield has an arm strap as well as a centre grip, but what evidence I've seen suggests that arm straps weren't used with saxon/viking type round shields (I'll add 'much', in case someone knows of an exception). With the centre grip alone your forearm doesn't need to 'fit' into the curve of the shield. As for the specific shield that is to be attempted here, I don't know whether it has an arm strap or not (in the film). With the concave round greek shields the arm was in the centre and the hand grip at the edge, which overcame the potential difficulty you refer to.
Regards
Geoff
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Paul Mortimer




Location: England, Essex
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Dan and Geoff,
Tim Noyes still offers lenticular shields which he presses from ply - he only glues each layer of the ply after they have been pressed (x3). They are not cheap but very well made.
I made my own shield by carving it - it is a large diameter shield (1 yard) - I bought wood about an inch thick and once I had made the disc I set about shaping both the inner and outer sides. I have mad two of these - one of pine and the other of lime.
I was after a specific shape - mostly flat but curved on the outside edge for about seven inches or so.

I suspect that period shields were made by a combination of carving and pressing.


Good luck,

Paul
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Mortimer wrote:
Hi Dan and Geoff,
Tim Noyes still offers lenticular shields which he presses from ply


Cool! Thanks Paul.
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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 9:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all!

Daniel,
Just a thought, but if you are trying to replicate Boromir's shield, or a shield similar to it, how about one made out of layers of hide or leather shaped and glued together? Hide shields might not be appropriate for medieval Europe, but they certainly would be fine for other places and periods.
Sorry if this well outside what you were looking at doing. I just thought I would give you another construction option.
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John Cooksey




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another idea:
Wicker frame with a hide/leather cover.

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Daniel Higgins





Joined: 30 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I appreciate all the ideas....keep em comin!!! Anything and everything helps! I've done alot of sheetmetal work, but the wood working is totally new to me...... I'm really wondering about the origins of this piece... is it actually a viking period piece, and did anything like this ever exist out there in the real world??? If I really did want to make it of wood, I guess I would need to make a frame press in a concave shape to make the blanks, and use layered glued sheets? maybe with 1/4" oak veneer in plank shapes to simulate boards, and then cover the front with dyed leather? I KNOW there are more shield experts out there.... comon guys, join in the discussion!!!!


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Daniel Higgins





Joined: 30 Dec 2004

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Mortimer wrote:
Hi Dan and Geoff,
Tim Noyes still offers lenticular shields which he presses from ply - he only glues each layer of the ply after they have been pressed (x3). They are not cheap but very well made.
I made my own shield by carving it - it is a large diameter shield (1 yard) - I bought wood about an inch thick and once I had made the disc I set about shaping both the inner and outer sides. I have mad two of these - one of pine and the other of lime.
I was after a specific shape - mostly flat but curved on the outside edge for about seven inches or so.

I suspect that period shields were made by a combination of carving and pressing.


Good luck,

Paul


any pics??????? I have a bad pic Ill submit later of an overhead shot of Sean Bean getting into one of the elven boats that happens to show a 'bit' of the back of the shield



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Nick Trueman





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PostPosted: Wed 25 Oct, 2006 12:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi

Does this help to put in context? Frankish ms pic of curved round shield.



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Nick Trueman





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PostPosted: Wed 25 Oct, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

another!

Certainly is a bit of pictorial evidence for them. The boss maybe less ornate than the one you have there. But then theres some mean looking boss's with a spike wich I have seen.

N



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Paul Mortimer




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PostPosted: Wed 25 Oct, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Dan,
Sorry about the lack of pictures -- I have real problems getting them the correct size -- I shall have to master it one day.


Paul
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Oct, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Mortimer wrote:
Hi Dan,
Sorry about the lack of pictures -- I have real problems getting them the correct size -- I shall have to master it one day.


I have sent you an email offering to resize images for you.

Additionally, I just added an entry to our Attachment Guide that answers the question, "How do I resize my images so that I can attach them?" by linking to two solutions.

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Paul Mortimer




Location: England, Essex
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are the two shields that I made (photo shrinkage courtesy of Nathan) -- theses are basically flat shields with the edge rolled over.

I am not sure you would want to carve a more convex shield - they were probably pressed.


Paul



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Paul Mortimer




Location: England, Essex
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Oct, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oops, here is another.


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Daniel Higgins





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PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

those edges still look great! Im actually in the process of building a press like one described in another post here to layer and glue a blank about 3/4 " thick and 29" diameter. Think the hole is best cut out prior to pressing, or would that lessen the structural integrity? I can understand how to bend along the grain as in a heater shield, but does this mean with a 360 curve I CANT use grained wood, just a composite? WTF?!
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