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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Sep, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: German Hunting Saber by MRL         Reply with quote

Museum Replicas Limited recently posted what they call a "German Hunting Saber". It's pretty interesting.

Overall-39 1/8" Blade-33 1/2" long, 1 1/4" wide 3/16" thick Wt.-2 lbs. 10 oz.

I'm just happy to see more curved blades entering the marketplace. I think I'd personaly be a bit disapointed by the shaping the components, particularly the guard. But at the cost of less than $200 US, the shaping is probably appropraite for the price point. What's more unusual to me is the shaping of the blade, as it appears (by shape alone) to be more inspird by a katana than a hunting sword or messer of Germanic origin. The double fullers distract from this, but looking beyond them, the curvature and tip shape is just so katana-like to me.


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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Wed 20 Sep, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

www.britishmilitaryswords.co.uk had a nearly identical sword for sale earlier this summer. It was an antique, of course. I cannot remember the blade shape, but the hilt is almost spot-on.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep, 2006 6:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This one got my usual reaction to new MRL items:

Hey! Hmmm. Oh. Bah!

Another missed opportunity, I think. Maybe could be improved on the workbench. The katana tip's easy to change. Ditto for the quillon terminals. Pommel, not so much. I'd love to see the original.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Colin F.




Location: Bradford, UK
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PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It'd be interesting to see the sword they based it on and reference it to from this book:

"A Collectors Guide To Swords, Daggers, And Cutlasses" by Gerald Weland.

Anyone got a copy? I'll have a look around Leeds Armouries if I'm able to get over there in the near furture.

Melchett - "In short, a German spy is giving away every one of our battle plans."
Cpt. Darling - "You look surprised, Blackadder."
Edmund - "I cerainly am, sir. I didn't realise we had any battle plans."
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
This one got my usual reaction to new MRL items:

Hey! Hmmm. Oh. Bah!

Another missed opportunity, I think. Maybe could be improved on the workbench. The katana tip's easy to change. Ditto for the quillon terminals. Pommel, not so much. I'd love to see the original.

I am fond of hunting swords and cuttoes, so my interest was really piqued at first, but then went in the same direction as Sean.

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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GG Osborne





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PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah, yes, but hilt, weight and balance aside, pair this blade up with a Paul Chen basket hilt and you would have a pretty nice Turcael. If I hadn't already made one up using a converted 1796 saber, I'd hop out and buy one. Wonder how easily the hilt could be removed...hummmm. By the way, the clipped point is just right. Take a look at the Peniculk sketches of Charles Stewart of Ardshiel's sword.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Stefan Toivonen




Location: Åbo, Finland
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PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Colin F. wrote:
It'd be interesting to see the sword they based it on and reference it to from this book:

"A Collectors Guide To Swords, Daggers, And Cutlasses" by Gerald Weland.

Anyone got a copy? I'll have a look around Leeds Armouries if I'm able to get over there in the near furture.


I have a copy of that book, but I'm not at home so I can cant check it out. When I'm home I'll scan and post it.
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Stefan Toivonen




Location: Åbo, Finland
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PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is the picture I promised, too bad the picture doesn't show the whole blade. A very elegant sword. The hilt and knuckleguard on the MRL looks to be too long, the proportions doesn't look as nice as on the original.

Quote:
Hunting sabre bearing the owner's initials and the date 1658; German, made in the archaic 'Old Franconian' style which was fashionable at the time. Its blade is 76.8cm (30.25 in) long and single-edged.

A Collectors guide to Swords, Daggers & Cutlasses by Gerald Weland



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Colin F.




Location: Bradford, UK
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Sep, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for getting the picture. You're right it looks like a very elegent sword. The proportions on the MRL don't look right and despite the fact I actually like the look of the MRL, it pales in comparison to the original.

I had the chance to handle two hunting swords whilst I was in Lindau, both a little more recent than the one in the book (early 1700's IIRC) Germany two years ago, but neither looked anywhere near as good as this one, although both handled very nicely. I wasn't allowed to take photos unfortunately. But I really like the way the wood is constructed within the handle as the metal curves round it to keep it in.

I think I might have to redesign the sword I'm thinking of getting made to incorporate some of the features on this sword Big Grin

Melchett - "In short, a German spy is giving away every one of our battle plans."
Cpt. Darling - "You look surprised, Blackadder."
Edmund - "I cerainly am, sir. I didn't realise we had any battle plans."
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




Location: Aust Agder, Norway
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Sep, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing this.
I think it looks like a very attractive sword, and MRLs replica looks allright. I like to see some early sabers.

Cheers,
Henrik

Constant and true.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Sep, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now I'm seeing a way to improve the looks of the repro. Filing or grinding the facets in the pommel, grip and side-ring could help a great deal. A softer finish or mild antiquing would help, too.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Sep, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Now I'm seeing a way to improve the looks of the repro. Filing or grinding the facets in the pommel, grip and side-ring could help a great deal. A softer finish or mild antiquing would help, too.
That, and perhaps a little engraving on the pommel, as was done on the original.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Caleb Hallgren




Location: DeKalb, IL
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Sep, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm of the opinion that the blade is a bit too long for the looks of the weapon. Proportions and such.....

Perhaps it would look better if the blade was cut down to 3/4 of it's current length.
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Don Halter
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Location: Bryan, TX
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've been looking over this type of blade the past few months in prep for making a few. I agree with Caleb, the blade seems a bit long compared to what I've been seeing as German hunting blades. I think the pommel section is just begging for some etching or engraving on the MRL sword! The tip on that one absolutely has to go!
Don "Krag" Halter
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Mon 16 Oct, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I came across a hunting sword in Wilkinson's Antique Arms and Armor. The hilt is of a similar form as the MRL piece, but it appears to have antler scales riveted to the tang (Edit: Well, duh, Jonathan, it says as much right there in the description!):
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct, 2006 4:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stefan Toivonen wrote:
Here is the picture I promised, too bad the picture doesn't show the whole blade. A very elegant sword. The hilt and knuckleguard on the MRL looks to be too long, the proportions doesn't look as nice as on the original.

Quote:
Hunting sabre bearing the owner's initials and the date 1658; German, made in the archaic 'Old Franconian' style which was fashionable at the time. Its blade is 76.8cm (30.25 in) long and single-edged.

A Collectors guide to Swords, Daggers & Cutlasses by Gerald Weland

AHA!! I knew I had seen this original sword somewhere before. This sword is A716 in the Wallace Collection. A716 has a shorter and wider blade, with less of a curve to it, compared to the MRL offering. A716 is just a much better looking sword! Comparison of key data in Nathan's post vs the Wallace Collection Catalogue:

Blade Length
MRL - 33-1/2 inches
A716 - 30-1/2 inches

Blade width
MRL - 1-1/4 inch
A716 - 1-1/2 inch

Weight
MRL - 2lb 10oz
A716 - 2lb 3oz.

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Oct, 2006 4:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
This sword is A716 in the Wallace Collection. A716 has a shorter and wider blade, with less of a curve to it, compared to the MRL offering. A716 is just a much better looking sword!


Thanks, Steve. I thought I had revisited this topic and posted a photo and stats of this sword. Here is the photo and info:

A716 Sabre
The pommel is a flat cup in continuation of the grip and widens at the end, faintly suggesting a bird's head; recurved knuckle guard and short quillon, each terminating in a disk. Single side ring; short grip of polished horn. The curved blade is falchion-shaped, single-edged, with three shallow hollow or slit grooves. Four inches from the hilt is a maker's mark inlaid in copper. Upon the pommel is engraved a shield of arms with the initials I.I.P. and the date 1658.

Length 30.5 inches; Width 1 1/2 inches; Weight 2:2 Pounds
German XVIth century (?)

The date upon the pommel was presumably placed there at the time the arms were engraved, but the shape of the word and the workmanship suggest that it may have been made earlier int he XVIth century.



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wallaceA716.jpg
Wallace Collection: A480, A716, A725, A539, A481

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Steve Halston





Joined: 26 Nov 2007

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PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I quite like MRL's version of the sword.

Critiques aside, Windlass Steelcrafts uses good quality steel and it's finely tempered.

At this price point, despite the fact that the sword is not as elegant as the original,I am hard-pressed to find anything really wrong with the sword.

If anybody is interested I could do a review once I've got one and discuss the handling characteristics.

Tempered steel and tempered spirit are the foremost attributes of a man at arms.
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