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Hugo Voisine





Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Best sword maker for WMA         Reply with quote

Hi there !

Question from a newbie : who do think is the best maker of viking swords for (controlled but still quite brutal Wink) WMA training and reenacting ?

What I look for is (in order) a tough, well balanced, not too heavy and good looking blunt sword, under 700 $. I already have a "dark age" blunt sword from Armour Class, and shall receive a DT2102 from Del Tin in the next weeks. I've ordered a danish two-hander from Gus Trim but unfortunatly he does not do the Petersen types. The Albion swords, although they are quite majestic, doesn't seem to be fitting for the kind of work I intend to do with my swords. I like the swords of V. Cervanka but he's backlogged until 2008 (Sad )...

Well, well, thanks in advance for your advices. Happy
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Best sword maker for WMA         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
Hi there !

Question from a newbie : who do think is the best maker of viking swords for (controlled but still quite brutal Wink) WMA training and reenacting ?

What I look for is (in order) a tough, well balanced, not too heavy and good looking blunt sword, under 700 $. I already have a "dark age" blunt sword from Armour Class, and shall receive a DT2102 from Del Tin in the next weeks. I've ordered a danish two-hander from Gus Trim but unfortunatly he does not do the Petersen types. The Albion swords, although they a quite majestic, doesn't seem to be fitting for the kind of work I intend to do with my swords. I like the swords of V. Cervanka but he's backlogged until 2008 (Sad )...

Well, well, thanks in advance for your advices. Happy


Hi Hugo

"Best" is always tough to guage, and always subjective. But I'm sure that both Tinker and John Lundemo can do what you're asking, and you might check with fellow Canadian, Al Massey.........

swords are fun
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
The Albion swords, although they are quite majestic, doesn't seem to be fitting for the kind of work I intend to do with my swords.


Hugo, what exactly do you mean by this?
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Binns?
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Hugo Voisine





Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 336

PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Hugo, what exactly do you mean by this?


Well, I own a Next Gen Steward, and it does very well in the cut (and everything it is said the Albion swords are and do Wink), but I don't see myself doing WMA training with it, for the edge is so thin and, well, cut-oriented, that I think I would quickly ruin it by fencing against the (quite) tick blunt swords of my fellow fencers, even if we aren't edge-on-edge-crazy-bashers. I like the Vinland, Gotland, Clontarf and the other more expensive Viking swords of the Next Gen line very much in terms of design and I'm sure they cut well, but it seems they are not designed to hold an edge when struck against a blunt. Am I wrong* ?










(*) Please say yes !
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
it seems they are not designed to hold an edge when struck against a blunt. Am I wrong* ?

I'm not sure any sword is designed to hold an edge when struck against a blunt. Why would somebody do this?

For what it's worth, you can order any Albion sword as blunted, though it's more "unsharpened" than blunt. Obviously, it won't be the same as a sword designed from the ground up as a training/bouting/practice blunt. This is to be expected.

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Mark Mattimore




Location: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 04 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No, you're not wrong. But frankly Hugo, you shouldn't worry about the edge holding up on a sharp because you should never fence with a sharp to begin with. Albion swords are wicked sharp and should be used for test cutting and solo drills only (and I know some people who say even solo drills with a sharp isn't a good idea either) Anyone actually fencing with one against an opponent is risking damage to something much more valuable than their sword. Eek! Sorry, just had to chime in on that one.
In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.
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Alexander Ren




Location: Florida
Joined: 18 Apr 2005

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PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 9:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try Lutel, they primarily make blunts. Although I have no seen any myself, I have been given lots of recomendations and am looking at their falchions/messers. http://www.lutel.cz/

Alex

"The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle."
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My first choice, and so my first recommendation, would be Arms & Armor. They have a few training weapons in their catalog and could custom make anything else you might want.
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Sam Barris




Location: San Diego, California
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
...it seems they are not designed to hold an edge when struck against a blunt.


It seems to me that the only thing you should be striking against a blunt is another blunt. From what I gather, Albion designs their swords with meticulous care in making their blade geometry match those of existing originals, none of which would keep an undamaged edge in a confrontation with a lead pipe or a brick wall. You have to understand the limitations of steel, as well as the fact that the purpose of a cutting edge was not to be struck against blunt objects of the same material, but rather softer materials, like flesh. There are people who claim that a folded steel katana can chop down a building. Don't be like those guys. I would also say that you're confusing a training weapon with a lethal weapon. I'd advise you to buy a blunt for steel on steel sparring. Bringing a sharp Albion (or any realistically designed sword, for that matter) to spar with a blunt is a little bit like bringing a Glock to a paintball game. You might inflict great harm on your partner without meaning to, not to mention damaging your sword.

Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,438

PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
Quote:
Hugo, what exactly do you mean by this?

Well, I own a Next Gen Steward, and it does very well in the cut (and everything it is said the Albion swords are and do Wink), but I don't see myself doing WMA training with it, for the edge is so thin and, well, cut-oriented, that I think I would quickly ruin it by fencing against the (quite) tick blunt swords of my fellow fencers, even if we aren't edge-on-edge-crazy-bashers.
(*) Please say yes !


There might also be a little issue of quickly ruining your fencing buddies unless you have very good control. Not much safety or margin for error.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
Quote:
Hugo, what exactly do you mean by this?


Well, I own a Next Gen Steward, and it does very well in the cut (and everything it is said the Albion swords are and do Wink), but I don't see myself doing WMA training with it, for the edge is so thin and, well, cut-oriented, that I think I would quickly ruin it by fencing against the (quite) tick blunt swords of my fellow fencers, even if we aren't edge-on-edge-crazy-bashers. I like the Vinland, Gotland, Clontarf and the other more expensive Viking swords of the Next Gen line very much in terms of design and I'm sure they cut well, but it seems they are not designed to hold an edge when struck against a blunt. Am I wrong?


You could always try the Squire Line Viking Sword from Albion. It's got thicker edges than Albion's Next Gen line, and at $350, it's the cheapest sword Albion has along with the 13th C Knightly Sword. At this price, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a weapon that feels and handles better. I could be wrong, but I think it would probably cost you more to have a custom A&A viking blunt made than to order the SL viking sword.

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/sq...viking.htm
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Ville Vinje




Location: Uppsala
Joined: 20 Apr 2006

Posts: 142

PostPosted: Mon 22 May, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I second Mr. Fults!

Why not go for Paul Binns!

Paul Binns have got far to less credit on this forum. His swords are sheep, hand hammered, beautiful, custom made, great to handle and almost impossible to destroy. They are a bit rough looking, but than again you were going for rough (viking) anyway.

/Ville
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
...but I think it would probably cost you more to have a custom A&A viking blunt made than to order the SL viking sword.


You might be surprised.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Angus Trim




Location: Seattle area
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PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Best sword maker for WMA         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
Hi there !

Question from a newbie : who do think is the best maker of viking swords for (controlled but still quite brutal Wink) WMA training and reenacting ?

What I look for is (in order) a tough, well balanced, not too heavy and good looking blunt sword, under 700 $.


I find some of the responses to this mildly troubling. A look at what Hugo asked and you can see, he's asking for a blunt sword, under $700. Not a sharp sword.........Having exchanged emails with him, I can tell you he's not an idiot, and not going to strike at anyone with a sharp sword......

Then there's another minor thing..... He points out that he's going to be rough on the piece, and that it'll need to be able to take some punishment. From my perspective, it does no good to send someone to a vendor that will likely not make the customer happy. When that happens, what we have is an unhappy customer, and a vendor that is likely to be taking some heat....... Haven't we seen enough of that over the last 18 mos or so? Would you really want to send a potential problem to your favorite sword vendor?

I mentioned Tinker, because his sparring pieces are excellent, and he has done Viking pieces before. John Lundemo's background is "live steel", and he can do the Viking pieces too. Al Massey's pieces may lack a bit aesthetically, but he makes really tough pieces, and sparring is right up his alley. Paul Binns is another excellent suggestion.......... Arms and Armor also is a good suggestion for this, they're getting more and more into custom stuff........

When a customer can be matched up to the right vendor, life is good for everyone.......Right now, there's two threads live in the Off Topic forum, where suspect heat treat is being mentioned. If it was me on the receiving end, I'd feel like I was being "piled on" right about now, and would feel like I'd had enough. And I certainly wouldn't want the wrong kind of customer sent my way to potentially add to the noise later.........

swords are fun
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Binns         Reply with quote

Just to add to the mentions for Paul Binns. His stuff is really tough, made for hard use.
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Jason Elrod




Location: Winchester, VA
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PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Best sword maker for WMA         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:

When a customer can be matched up to the right vendor, life is good for everyone.......


Amen! I just wish there was an easier and cheaper way of doing this! Wink Sometimes it's really hard to get this right because you really can't always know your correct until you actually have the sword in hand from that particular vendor.
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Jason Elrod




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PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Best sword maker for WMA         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
Hi there !

Question from a newbie : who do think is the best maker of viking swords for (controlled but still quite brutal Wink) WMA training and reenacting ?

What I look for is (in order) a tough, well balanced, not too heavy and good looking blunt sword, under 700 $. I already have a "dark age" blunt sword from Armour Class, and shall receive a DT2102 from Del Tin in the next weeks. I've ordered a danish two-hander from Gus Trim but unfortunatly he does not do the Petersen types. The Albion swords, although they are quite majestic, doesn't seem to be fitting for the kind of work I intend to do with my swords. I like the swords of V. Cervanka but he's backlogged until 2008 (Sad )...

Well, well, thanks in advance for your advices. Happy


Hugo,

I don't know anything about V. Cervanka but I do know that Art Elwell usually has some of his pieces in stock. His website is located here: http://www.a-work-of-art.net/ While his site is hopelessly out of date you can e-mail Art and he'll send you a list of everything that he has in stock. Art also carries Del Tins and Lutels so even if you don't buy anything from him he would be a good resource to glean information from about the companies products and your particular needs. Just a note from personal experience, Art is great to deal with and can do some customization of his products as well as scabbards if he has that time.
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Hugo Voisine





Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 336

PostPosted: Tue 23 May, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. Happy

I'll ask mister Elwell about his inventory in the weeks to come, thank for the tip. Wink

I think there was some misunderstanding about some of the things I've written, probably because of my bad english (french is my primary language). When I write "struck against a blunt", I don't really mean "struck" but more "to parry against a blunt", preferably with the flat. And of course, fencing with a sharp sword is out of question. Wink But well, while trying new techniques, or doing mock duels (we say "combat courtois"), sometimes the sword have to endure some degree of abuse. I'll feel safer knowing that my sword could resist a heavy blow, because I've seen low quality swords and other weapons break during a fight, and that's something I never want to see again. A broken poleaxe head flying in the air toward you is a really disturbing experience. Razz

Concerning John Lundemo, I've heard a lot of very good comments toward his work (and nearly had an hearth attack when I first saw photos of his spatha Pertinax), but isn't he backlogged for several months (if not years) ?
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Wed 24 May, 2006 12:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hugo Voisine wrote:
Concerning John Lundemo, I've heard a lot of very good comments toward his work (and nearly had an hearth attack when I first saw photos of his spatha Pertinax), but isn't he backlogged for several months (if not years) ?


Might try asking over at SFI.

He seems to post there more regularly.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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