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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject: So what is the vast difference.. (armour)         Reply with quote

About the issue of prices: I recently bought a Sallet that was beautiful, detailed and had a great sturdy feel to it and just great all together. This helmet i payed about 300€ for. And on other armour-pages i see "similar" helmets for up to 1500€. So now im wondering, what is the vast difference between good/adequate armour-pieces and these fantastically priced ones(who i for one would never dare to fight in..)? I ofcourse understand that people can charge and value using old-time methods and other things making it more difficult to produce, but what im wondering is the actual quality. FOr instance a historically correct riveted chainmail will be both better looking, much harder to produce AND take abuse, wear and tear (and after all thats what armour is made to do..) better then say a mail from calcutta..
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How do you define good and adequate? It really depends on how trained your eye is to form, shape, and volume. It also depends on how well you're versed in the finer points of construction methodology. Without seeing two specific examples to compare, it's difficult to define what makes one valued higher than the other.
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the first difference is the maker, you pay for the armourers mark too, just like everything else Wink

the second is if the skull of the helm is 1 peice raised or 2 or more pieces welded togeher. most cheaper (by cheaper i mean under 800 bucks) are more than 1 piece welded together. raised is more historical, harder to do, takes more time=more money.
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok, i guess i can refrase to make it very easy; what is the biggest difference between normally priced armour from say Clang Armoury and really pricy stuff from say www.living-history.no? And i mean in terms of other then pure esthetics.
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vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One must also consider that the term, "pure aesthetics" doesn't mean much. At the very best, it's ill-defined. It could mean polish and finish quality or ot could mean form, shape, and volume. These are quite different things, though each refer to the piece's general apperance, or aesthetic qualities. Each would be significantly different factors in price determination.

For example, let's consider an ill-shaped helm as an example. What if a person made a two-piece helm of welded construction that is a poorly shaped form and lacking the subtle accurate shaping of a quality research piece.This piece was finely finished to an even-applied satin finish with no visible dents or imperfections of finish.

Now let's compare that to another helm that was created by a maker who's spent a significant amount of time doing research on authentic samples and perfecting his craft making him able to replicate those fine shapes. He's raised the helm from a single piece, rather than using welded-construction. The subtle shaping matches that of of an example found in a museum he had studied. Fine details are present, but the overall polish on this one was left rough with hammer marks, pitting, and many other imperfections visible.

Which one is more valuable to you?

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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What i meant was "other differences then those who please the eye", the ability to take abuse, weight to "sturdiness" ratio and other things you would care about if you treated armour like a weapon of war rather then a collectors-item that most do. Maybe its hard to explain what conclusions im trying to reach..id best get me one of those 1500€ helmet and compare...;/
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 3:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

ok well the first thing is your compairing norway to american currency?
1,500.00 NOKNorway Kroner = 221.000 USD United States Dollars


where as american
$240USD


pretty much the same price. now its not supposed to be the same helmet but its a spangen cronical. its the location that makes the price seem higher.

both armourers in question have the form and function down pretty good. i've never seen the pieces from teh norway armourer up close, but i've been to Clang's shop a number of times and the guy is good. hehehe he's even got the cluter of robert macpherson's shop down hahahaha
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W. Stilleborn wrote:
What i meant was "other differences then those who please the eye", the ability to take abuse, weight to "sturdiness" ratio and other things you would care about if you treated armour like a weapon of war rather then a collectors-item that most do.


Price isn't always directly related to how much abuse something will take. It can be a number of factors, including difficulty to create and research gone into it's creation. The latter is an often forgotten about aspect, but if I spent 1000 hours researching the sublties and form of a particular piece, that means I should be able to charge for it.

In the end, it comes down to the customer: Is the research worth the price to you?

Perfect example: Albion makes the Brescia Spadona and the Sempach. The Brescia is twice the cost of the Sempach. This does not mean the Brescia is 200% stronger than the Sempach. Rather, the Sempach is a sword that represents a certain style of weapon, while the Brescia is a heavily researched, exacting replica of a specific piece. The latter required much more work to get it into production. Now it is up to the customer to decide if that level of extra work is worth the extra price. Do they want an exact replica of that historic piece? Then the Brescia is the only choice for them in that case. If they are not so demanding, perhaps the Sempach (or something else even) is more towards their purchasing goal.

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W. Schütz
Industry Professional



Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 5:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chuck Russell wrote:
Pretty much the same price. now its not supposed to be the same helmet but its a spangen cronical. its the location that makes the price seem higher.

both armourers in question have the form and function down pretty good. i've never seen the pieces from teh norway armourer up close, but i've been to Clang's shop a number of times and the guy is good. hehehe he's even got the cluter of robert macpherson's shop down hahahaha


No living-history.no was maby not a good example, cos i just looked at their sallets.

Well im pretty content with what i have concluded with this thread, apparently there is nothing crutial (to me) that i have missed when ordering armour for mid-prices, and thats basicly all i wanted to find out.

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W. Stilleborn wrote:
Chuck Russell wrote:
Pretty much the same price. now its not supposed to be the same helmet but its a spangen cronical. its the location that makes the price seem higher.

both armourers in question have the form and function down pretty good. i've never seen the pieces from teh norway armourer up close, but i've been to Clang's shop a number of times and the guy is good. hehehe he's even got the cluter of robert macpherson's shop down hahahaha


No living-history.no was maby not a good example, cos i just looked at their sallets.

Well im pretty content with what i have concluded with this thread, apparently there is nothing crutial (to me) that i have missed when ordering armour for mid-prices, and thats basicly all i wanted to find out.


Happy well my guess that a 1000 sallet in usa currency would mean that it is a 1 piece skull raise form a single sheet of steel. just a guess. ask them Happy
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