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Randy Filipovic




Location: Calgary,Alberta
Joined: 19 Oct 2004

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun, 2005 6:11 pm    Post subject: Question about this piece         Reply with quote

Hi everyone. I just bought a dagger or short sword, not quite sure what it is. I know a fair amount about types and period of swords but this one has me baffled. I thought I would come here to ask for input and suggestions from the people here.
This is great since it's a global community. I'll give a description as best as I can and will include some pictures.

Overall length is 21.5". Blade length is 14.5" and 1.25" wide.At the thickest point the blade is 5/16" thick.
The pommel is quite ornate and appears to be cast of brass and gilt. The rings around the top and bottom of the handle look like very thin brass, gilt and saudered at one place.The handle is wood which in my estimate looks like oak and is wire wrapped. The wire is one continuous strand and it's not twisted or braided.The guard is a longated hexagonal shape and the quillons are missing. All that's left are square holes. It looks like perhaps a ring was on one side of the guard because something obviously broke off.
The blade is in good condition on one side but a bit rough on the other sadly. The engraving on the blade is the same on both sides. At the guard is a design that reminds me of a wrought iron gate. I doubt that's what is though. There is a cannon, what period I don't know but it has three rings around the barrel.The cannon is over two crossed lances or polls with plain flags.The other engravings are floral in nature and it appears to be two roses. The blade is blued and gilt as well. I can make out a fine gilt line running the length of the blade on the non edged portion.
There is no stamp or mark on the blade from the craftsmen. The only mark is on a substantial tang in the form of what looks like a number. Looking at it as you hold it : 09. I thought it might be 60 but it looks like an upside down 9 when viewed the other way.
Short swords and daggers are not my forte but I'll spend the better part of the weekend researching this nice piece(in my opinion). This piece looks far different than the photos I had to go on when I bid on it.
It looks homogenous to me but I'm not sure about the guard. The handle still fits snug, the wire wrap is loose and the blade is pitted on one side. Most of the bluing is visible too.
I got it for a moderate price( I think) and bought it simply because I liked it's individuality.
If anyone has comments, suggestions, guesses about period, country, or knows where I can email for info, please feel free to post away!
Many thanks in advance, Randy



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Last edited by Randy Filipovic on Fri 10 Jun, 2005 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Randy Filipovic




Location: Calgary,Alberta
Joined: 19 Oct 2004

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know if I can post mulptiple pics, so I'll add this one. I have more, but don't want to drive anybody crazy. If you'd like to see another angle, I will post one .


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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional



Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,563

PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun, 2005 8:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randy your guess is as good as mine but the blade seems to be cut down quite a bit. The blade has a hollow ground profile the reminds me of a small sword and the gold inlayed military trophy type engraving on what appears to be a blued blade(it a bit hard to tell for sure from the pictures if its blueing or very dark patination) would lend itself to a later 18th or more likely 19th century cut down small sword blade. The pommel appeares to be screwed on (can't see the tang piened through at the end in the pic) or at least mis matched/aligned to the brass collar at the top of the grip is it loose at all? It has an Eastern European feel to it maybe reusing a broken blade?
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Randy Filipovic




Location: Calgary,Alberta
Joined: 19 Oct 2004

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This was I thought in the beginning as well. Ive taken the sword apart and it looks like it was intentionally made this way. The tang is at least 1/4" x 1/4" and is not as finished as the blade is. The blade is indeed blued, this is clearly visible as I look at it. Sorry the picture is bad. I don't see any visible grind marks at the tip of the blade either.
It has been sharpened many times as there is a tale tell curve in it from incorrect sharpening. I believe threading was done and not sure if all swords and daggers were peened.
I thought it might be a presentation piece or an officer's piece. It looks like it has been used but there are no nics or dings on the edge.
I'll need to resize some pics to post them for a closer look. I appreciate your thoughts and I initially thought it may be 18th 0r 19th century. A friend of mine thought it might be earlier. I still need to look around as well.
Edit: The collar at the top near the pommel is broken and is loose but is only part of the handle. Maybe to keep the wire wrap in place???



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Randy Filipovic




Location: Calgary,Alberta
Joined: 19 Oct 2004

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat 11 Jun, 2005 10:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've inspected the sword more closely in the daylight and realised the rougher side of the blade has different engraving. The floral pattern is in different spots and what I thought was the same cannon pattern is actually something else. It's hard to make out but I can see what looks like a halberd along with the crossed flags. The spike on the halberd is short.
Unfortunately this side of the blade has a fair amount of rust(dark brown or black). I'm not qualified to clean it so I'll leave it as is. I tightened up the wire wrap and it looks like it has a copper and brass colour to it.



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