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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Wed 18 May, 2005 9:22 pm    Post subject: Japanese war fan anyone?         Reply with quote

apparently Hanwei is moving into even more cool japanese stuff...



http://www.casiberia.com/casiberia/cas/produc...?id=oh2182

888knives has it for $112.... but I just bought a new MT Bike so I'm out... Wink

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, that is really cool if for no other reason than that it's different from everything else out now. I do like that Hanwei does that from time to time. Their "trident" main gauche, while not the highest quality piece ever, still was unique in the modern market.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 10:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Hey, that is really cool if for no other reason than that it's different from everything else out now. I do like that Hanwei does that from time to time. Their "trident" main gauche, while not the highest quality piece ever, still was unique in the modern market.


I agree, and not only was the Trident unique, they created two other spring-loaded daggers in their lineup, too. (The German, in two different finishes) Glad to see them pushing some boundaries as a production maker.

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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 10:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well for me its neat things like this that you just can't find elsewhere (under $$$$) that really perks my interest. unfortunately the way in which CASI advertises their new stuff is entirely poor. One never knows when/if/how/why something is coming out. As with this one, I was ready to "buy, buy, buy", but then I remembered the way they did the helmets, and others stuff, so I think I will wait and see if some different versions come out before I pick one. 888Knives shows it with a nice wood stand too: nice touch.
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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Daniel Parry




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks nice. Presumably this is the type of war fan for signalling the troops and giving orders not the 'gunsen' or 'tetsu-sen'/'tessen' war-fan used for combat. I always understood the latter were folding fans with heavy iron exteriors which could be used as a parry-ing weapon (or possibly a club) as a back-up ?

Daniel
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Thomas Jason




Location: New Joisey
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually the Tessen was not a true fan. It didn't unfold and was merely an iron club cast or carved into the shape of a fan so as not to appear too out of place when tucked into the obi.
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Daniel Parry




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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Thomas ! I didn't know that. I always took it at its literal meaning of 'tetsu-sen', 'iron-fan' and assumed it would open like others. Interesting that it was actually a disguised club/defence weapon, as you say.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 5:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas Jason wrote:
Actually the Tessen was not a true fan. It didn't unfold and was merely an iron club cast or carved into the shape of a fan so as not to appear too out of place when tucked into the obi.


Ah, now that makes a lot more sense! Like Daniel, I also thought it opened. Thanks, Thomas!
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Tyler Weaver




Location: Central New York
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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 7:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The reality is somewhat more complex.

There were opening and non-opening iron fans. Non-opening ones were apparently much cheaper and more effective when it came to cracking heads, so I'm betting they were much more common.

Aku. Soku. Zan.
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Thomas Jason




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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 8:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tyler:

I have yet to see a practical version of the folding kind that were actually meant for self defense use. It's just not strong enough and is too unwieldy.

Most of the Metal fans with ribs I've seen were more of a status symbol than a true weapon.
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Tyler Weaver




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PostPosted: Thu 19 May, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not saying they were a very practical proposition for beating people upside the head with...

...but they did exist, and I'm pretty sure one would work quite nicely in a pinch.

Aku. Soku. Zan.
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Thomas Jason




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PostPosted: Fri 20 May, 2005 12:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't get confused with the fake wushu fams out there.

Those are not tessen.
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Thomas Jason




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PostPosted: Fri 20 May, 2005 12:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just looked through my notes.

The folding fan with the metal ribs are calld "Gun-Sen" and are not Tessen.

Gun-Sen had the outer metal ribs because they were carried while the Samurai was at war. Tucked into the Obi alongside their swords and other paraphanalia, a plain bamboo fan would snap while riding on horseback or if they took a fall. The metal outer ribs supported the fan so it would not snap under battlefield conditions.

They were used for signaling troops and for acting as a sunshade when viewing a battle. The closest they would come to being used as a weapon would be to ward of thrown stones and if desperate enough, arrows.
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Roy Lindus




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: On the subject of war fans         Reply with quote

Attached are two fans from WW2 period, seems that senior officers signed these as presents, both came with "Bring back" swords from British military personnel so I have no doubt of their authenticity. It is also interesting that one is a poem while the second is patriotic. Both generals were executed for war crimes after the end of the war,yet it seems to carry on the samurai theme of literate men with with a poetical bent.

The picture are from my flatbed scanner so are foreshortened.

Eek!



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30 year obsession
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Roy Lindus




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Sat 21 May, 2005 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: On the subject of war fans         Reply with quote

Roy Lindus wrote:
Attached are two fans from WW2 period, seems that senior officers signed these as presents, both came with "Bring back" swords from British military personnel so I have no doubt of their authenticity. It is also interesting that one is a poem while the second is patriotic. Both generals were executed for war crimes after the end of the war,yet it seems to carry on the samurai theme of literate men with with a poetical bent.

The picture are from my flatbed scanner so are foreshortened.

Eek!


(Full translation are available if any are interested.)

30 year obsession
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Joe Wilson





Joined: 25 May 2005

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PostPosted: Thu 26 May, 2005 7:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow. I had always thought that war fans were able to unfold, and I kinda figgured that they had razor tips, but I guess not. I'm just suprised at the misconseptions some people have about weapons. The other day, I found a site where you could see an "actual computer generated reenactment" of a fight between a man with a knife, and a woman weilding a metal, folding, war fan The battle was pretty cool, and looked realistic enough. But, now that I think about it, she did use the fan to somehow dissarm the guy with the knife... Confused Oh well. I guess that the line between fantasy and realistic fighting is not very thin.
! 4/\/\ n0t \/3ry 0Ld, 8u7 !'LL 7ry t0 k33p up.
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Thu 26 May, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: On the subject of war fans         Reply with quote

Roy Lindus wrote:
....(Full translation are available if any are interested.)

Yes, if not too difficult. Should provide interesting insight into their minds.
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Roy Lindus




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Fri 27 May, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: On the subject of war fans         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
Roy Lindus wrote:
....(Full translation are available if any are interested.)

Yes, if not too difficult. Should provide interesting insight into their minds.



Hi Steve............

The lighter in colour fan roughly translates as this.
"Something Beutiful. Autmn season" (Kun Rei Si Shu)
Signed by General Kawamura. Saburo Kawamura,Major General of the 9th Infantry brigade ,5th Division under General Matsui, landed at Singora,Siam, for the Malay invasion.
Broke the British lines at Jitra in December 1941. Broke the sourthern maya defence January 42 and on the 25th of January Kahang airfield. He was then part of the attack on Singapore Island,February 15th 42. Commanded the Singapore garrison (2nd Field Kempei tei). Cheif of staff to the 38th Army, Saigon & Indo China December 1944.

Tried at Saigon by British Military court for the massacre of several thousand Chinese in Singapore, sentenced to death by hanging in 1947.


The second again roughly translates as.....

(Translation is by Sakak Shimizu,ex Colonel in the Imperial Japanese Army)

" We do our duty and so will win"
Signed......
"Minister of the Army. Hideki Tojyo"

A slight variation came from Matsui Tomo,Ex Captain Imperial Guards.

" Hiisei"='Sure to acomplish' he dated it from the inscription to 1940.
Hediki Tojo (Eiki) was born 1884 of Samurai stock. Commissioned 1902 and was a Major General by 1933. War minister 1940 and chief of General staff 1943.
Attempted suicide prior to arrest by the allies,11th September 1945
Indicted on 50 counts of 'A' class war crimes and executed by hanging at Sugano prison December 23rd 1948.

30 year obsession
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 27 May, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow. When you mentioned that these war fans came from two General officers convicted and executed for war crimes, I didn't realize that Tojo was one of them.

Did you happen to notice today's news reports of two WW2 Japanese Imperial Army veterans still in hiding in Mindanao (Philippines). Not yet confirmed, and the Japanese Government is apparently jumping through hoops trying to confirm. These guys are in their 80's, of course.
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Roy Lindus




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Fri 27 May, 2005 3:33 pm    Post subject: Many         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
Wow. When you mentioned that these war fans came from two General officers convicted and executed for war crimes, I didn't realize that Tojo was one of them.

Did you happen to notice today's news reports of two WW2 Japanese Imperial Army veterans still in hiding in Mindanao (Philippines). Not yet confirmed, and the Japanese Government is apparently jumping through hoops trying to confirm. These guys are in their 80's, of course.


Hi Steve
No have not seen this but we are in the UK and at this time the media is entirely envolved in just three things,,,,,,Football,France and its vote on EU & Violence in the UK.

The thing is that these officers probably signed Fans in their hundreds, just how many survived or are now being faked is anyones guess.
The First came with a bundle of stuff many years ago> I bought two ShinGunto from a chap, he had been shore patrol at the dockyard,Singapore. Spotted a Japanese officer running like hell from a group of Australian ex prisioners and secured the chap.
Being British sailors they damn near stripped him naked befor inturning him, so with the swords he sent me some photographs taken from the man of his family etc, his hat {Now in Australia} various medals and the fan. What rank the man was we shall never know and as the rank tassels from the swords had long gone, no way of tracing that, but I can conclude that it is Genuine.
The second came with a Shin Gunto, a Dha and a brief history of the owner from his widow. Seems he was an RAF Padre, mentioned in despatch's for continueing a funeral while under fire...................Can you believe that!!! bet his men loved him.

Cant check my spelling as the spellcheck has not worked since I downloaded the Anti spywhere........

I often now wish I had kept more details on the stories re the Swords, at the time I was only interested in the blades. Consolation, as I age my short term memory is totally shot but I am now recalling details from forty years of collecting, odd huh!.
Regards
Roy

30 year obsession
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