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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

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PostPosted: Fri 28 May, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject: 4th-5th century spatha with wide guard         Reply with quote

Scroll down a bit https://www.roma-victrix.com/summa-divisio/armamentarium/pugiones-gladii-et-spathae/spathae-i-v-sec-d-c.html Any info on this? Is it legit and is it roman?
Leonard Parker
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Sat 29 May, 2021 4:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wacky. Mind you, the late Roman stuff isn't my strong area, but it's certainly not like anything I've ever seen. So my guess is that either someone dropped a later guard (maybe MUCH later) onto the tang, or someone took a much later sword and stuck that chape on the tip. OR all 3 parts were just stuck together and don't really go together.

Some of the other blades on that page, well, let's just say I'm a little skeptical of their dates, not that "4th-5th century" is very precise. Just gut reactions.

Matthew
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Victor R.




Location: Klein, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 29 May, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are you positive it's a guard, or potentially a scabbard fitting? The tabs on the ends could be part of a suspension system of some sort. Given the prevalence of organic grips, including pommel and guard, in that era, and the presence of the chape, I'd lean more towards fitting than cross. Speculation for certain, but possibly within the real of reason.
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Len Parker





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PostPosted: Sat 29 May, 2021 5:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's actually not that wide. If the tang is 13 cm long then the guard (if that's what it is) would be about 8.5 cm wide. There are plenty of guards wider in this period. It's the shape that's unique.
Leonard Parker
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,418

PostPosted: Sun 30 May, 2021 5:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Victor R. wrote:
Are you positive it's a guard, or potentially a scabbard fitting? The tabs on the ends could be part of a suspension system of some sort. Given the prevalence of organic grips, including pommel and guard, in that era, and the presence of the chape, I'd lean more towards fitting than cross. Speculation for certain, but possibly within the real of reason.


It's MUCH more like some later guard than *any* suspension system I've seen, Roman or not. So I'm still voting for some kind of mashup.

Matthew
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Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 430

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jun, 2021 5:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another roman sword with a unique guard (half way down) https://www.academia.edu/41330119/The_Roman_sword_from_the_Przeworsk_culture_cemetery_at_Jadowniki_Mokre_Ma%C5%82opolskie_province

[edit] Here's a better pic: https://frisiacoasttrail.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/millingen-aan-de-rijn-ad-1-50.jpg?w=1024 Maybe this is just a normal guard plate that's folded over. I can't tell.

Leonard Parker
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