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Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 169

PostPosted: Sat 27 Mar, 2021 2:22 am    Post subject: Early light arm harnesses (German)         Reply with quote

Hi,
I am working on a kit for a foot solder from the Hausbuch Wolfegg - Heerzug panorama (warning, huge JPG image):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Hausbuch_Wolfegg_51v_52r1_Heerzug.jpg


I've pretty much finished the breastplate and am working on the bevor attachment so the next task is the arm harnesses. I noticed that quite a few of the guys in the 'Heerzug' panorama are wearing somewhat archaic armour dating from the early 15th century and even the odd bassinet with aventail that looks like it belongs in the late 14th century. What interested me are the old fashioned spaulders and couters that appear in the 'Heerzug'. These are over half a century out of date by 1480-1490. Does anybody have ideas of how these things were attached? I found this otherwise excellent statue from the rather awesome Kreuztragung Christi relief that used to be in the Parish Church of St. Martin in Lorsch in Germany.

There is, however, no hint as to how this kind of 'Armzeug' was attached to the mail. Does anybody know or perhaps remember a piece of art that shows the method of attachment?



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lorch arm harness.jpg
Early form of Leichtes Armzeug from the Lorch Kreuztragung (~1425)
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Josiah J





Joined: 24 Jun 2017

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat 27 Mar, 2021 3:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My guess is that it's probably pointed to the doublet (or the like) that would be worn underneath the mail, which would help keep the armour in the proper place. Alternatively, assuming the mail is integral to the doublet underneath, instead of a separate hauberk, it could be riveted or otherwise directly attached to the mail sleeve.
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Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 169

PostPosted: Sat 27 Mar, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Josiah J wrote:
My guess is that it's probably pointed to the doublet (or the like) that would be worn underneath the mail, which would help keep the armour in the proper place. Alternatively, assuming the mail is integral to the doublet underneath, instead of a separate hauberk, it could be riveted or otherwise directly attached to the mail sleeve.


These things just seem to float magically on top of multiple layers of clothing and armour with no attachment points like those 14th century scabbards that just seem to hover at a knights armoured plate skirt with no belt. Pointings are what I find most likely although with that baggy hauberk sleeve it seems to me the plates wold shift about and not provide the best possible protection. Secondly this statue shows no signs of point ties. Mind you, this relief seems to have original had actual leather straps on the armour wearing statues that are now lost so maybe this thing had leather point ties that are now lost but in that case there should be holes. I found a scene from an altar table in my private image collection that shows one of these 'Spaulder lobes' or 'Shoulder lobsters' being pointed to the doublet. Then there are images like the below one from Hausbuch Wolfegg. The guy in the middle wearing the red Schecke (jacket) has one of these floating on top of the Schecke, under that he possibly wears a mail shirt and under that a doublet. For this to be pointed to the doublet it would have to be threaded through the mail shirt and through holes in the Shecke. I suppose the Schecke could have a slit on top of the sleeve to allow the spaulder lobe to show.

[/img]



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9bc7f34cdf7a1e097176bda7df3c3660.jpg
Gefangennami Christi, Dieric Bouts (1485)

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[ Download ]
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Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 169

PostPosted: Sat 27 Mar, 2021 6:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One other option is that this thing could be riveted to the mail with a leather backed shingle on the inside of the mail shirt as a permanent form of 'applique' armour 'upgrade' for the mail shirt Big Grin.

Anyway, found another image. This is clearly attached to an underlying mail shirt or doublet. I'm assuming there is a leather piece backing the lobster scale allowing it to flex. If that leather piece has tabs with holes on it that would allow the wearer to point the thing directly to the mail shirt without exposing any points on the outside of the armour that might then be cut in combat as would happen if you simply drilled a pair of holes through the plate armour and threaded the points through them. There also has to be a slit in the sleeve of the Schecke and the fabric must be tucked under the shoulder defence which would allow the wearer to take the Shecke off without it being semi-permanently attached to the mail shirt via the applique shoulder lobster armour.





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Gefangennahme Christi, Meister der Karlsruher Passion, Strasbourg (1455). [ Download ]
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Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 169

PostPosted: Sat 27 Mar, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found an image of a guy wearing a slit sleeved Schecke with a shoulder slit in exactly the right place and a piece of plate armour visible underneath and he's wearing a hauberk under the Shecke. This is all starting to fit together, it even accounts for how you could have a couter on the outside of the Schecke but the attachment straps and/or points to fix the couter on the inside of the sleeve. I'm going with the couter and shoulder lobster being pointed to the mail shirt's sleeves, or the couter was pointed to the doublet if only a hauberk was worn, while the shoulder lobster applique armour was probably pointed to the hauberk/mail-shirt via the leather articulation piece on the inside of the shoulder lobster. I expect the wearer put the shirt on with the lobster already in place and didn't bother to un-point it all that often unless the shirt and the lobster were ripe for de-rusting.


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f0fd2f906b790c7202ee801731563266--medieval-armor-crossbow.jpg
Munderkinger Passion, Baden-Württemberg, Germany (1473)
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