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Pedro Paulo Gaião




Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Joined: 14 Mar 2015

Posts: 265

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Murad IV's armor         Reply with quote



So, Murad the IV was the Ottoman Emperor in the first half of 17th century, being contemporary to the 30 Years' War. I mainly wanted to show this portray, for you can see the use of latten and what appears to be pearls in the mail and in the rerebrace.

Also, to ask you if there is any evidence for Islamic armor being completely hidden by dresses (I'm excluding Khazagand/Jazerant mail-cloth armor), for when I read Heath's Armies of Middle Ages he said the thesis of undergarment armor was debunked by the time he wrote his book (1970-80's). Murad's armor is obviously not hidden, but it's an interesting match anyways.

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Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Fri 02 Nov, 2018 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Murad IV's armor         Reply with quote

Pedro Paulo Gaião wrote:
I'm excluding Khazagand/Jazerant mail-cloth armor), for when I read Heath's Armies of Middle Ages he said the thesis of undergarment armor was debunked by the time he wrote his book (1970-80's).


We do have European wills and household accounts which mention such clothing though. If my memory serves me right the Howard household accounts mention the use of mail and red velvet in a single garment.
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 803

PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Murad IV's armor         Reply with quote

Pedro Paulo Gaião wrote:


So, Murad the IV was the Ottoman Emperor in the first half of 17th century, being contemporary to the 30 Years' War. I mainly wanted to show this portray, for you can see the use of latten and what appears to be pearls in the mail and in the rerebrace.

Also, to ask you if there is any evidence for Islamic armor being completely hidden by dresses (I'm excluding Khazagand/Jazerant mail-cloth armor), for when I read Heath's Armies of Middle Ages he said the thesis of undergarment armor was debunked by the time he wrote his book (1970-80's). Murad's armor is obviously not hidden, but it's an interesting match anyways.


Pedro, take a good look at the painting of Murad, his hauberk IS obviously hidden by his clothing, the painter shows his clothing thrown back to one side which exposes his hauberk. This was not uncommon, when looking at paintings done of Indo-Persian warriors you often see helmets and arm guards but not hauberks or other body armor, what you see instead are long coats.

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