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Tor G.





Joined: 28 Mar 2018

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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject: Knobbed Cube Mace First Appearance         Reply with quote

I'm trying to find out what kind of mace patterns were available before 450 AD around the Roman empire (north africa and europe all the way to, but not including china).

I've been especially interested in these types of knobbed maces.



Anyone have info on when they first appeared? It does not have to be widespread.
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is a later version of the Kiripinchnikov type IV and from memory came in around 12thC/13thC

Try looking up the work of Kiripinchnikov and also more recently that of Popov.

No idea what maces were around in 450, but there is a great axe/mace thing from Sutton Hoo 150 years later.

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Tod

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Tor G.





Joined: 28 Mar 2018

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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
That is a later version of the Kiripinchnikov type IV and from memory came in around 12thC/13thC

Try looking up the work of Kiripinchnikov and also more recently that of Popov.

No idea what maces were around in 450, but there is a great axe/mace thing from Sutton Hoo 150 years later.

Regards

Tod


Thanks for the insight. I'll look it up. Sadly the project I'm working on has a cut off at around 450.


From what I've found, these types of maces first appeared 900 AD. This item is claimed to be from 2000 years earlier.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/ancient-luristan-bronze-mace-head,-ex-piscopo-58t-c-00e49cabef
If anyone has any insight on that, I would greatly appreciate it.
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tor G. Wrote
Quote:
This item is claimed to be from 2000 years earlier.


No chance - medieval

Tod

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Don Stanko




Location: ohio
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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Tod. Artemis is excellent at identifying antiquities, but they are not infallible when it comes to medieval weapons. I trust them in most cases, but mistakes can happen.

Iím still not sure whether this is a part of a Roman bronze statue, or a medieval fist war hammer.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/54870786_rare-roman-bronze-hand-w-iron-dagger
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don Stanko wrote:
I agree with Tod. Artemis is excellent at identifying antiquities, but they are not infallible when it comes to medieval weapons. I trust them in most cases, but mistakes can happen.

Iím still not sure whether this is a part of a Roman bronze statue, or a medieval fist war hammer.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/54870786_rare-roman-bronze-hand-w-iron-dagger


There is no way that anyone can claim that this is Roman without a much better provenance.

Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One would think the hand would be clutching a pugio, otherwise a striking similarity with a medieval hammer I sell...........

Tod

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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
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PostPosted: Wed 30 May, 2018 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: Knobbed Cube Mace First Appearance         Reply with quote

Tor G. wrote:
I'm trying to find out what kind of mace patterns were available before 450 AD around the Roman empire (north africa and europe all the way to, but not including china).

I've been especially interested in these types of knobbed maces.



Anyone have info on when they first appeared? It does not have to be widespread.

I do not know of any bronze maces which were popular between 600 BCE and 500 CE west of the Hindu Kush. Closer to 1000 BCE, a few bronze maces appear in graves in western Iran- I saw some at the national archaeological museum in Teheran.

If you look at places which were very poor in metal, you might find some wooden or stone-headed clubs.
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Tor G.





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PostPosted: Wed 30 May, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies, guys. I mainly wanted to know about that particular mace pattern, and I got what I needed. Big Grin
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