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Rich Knack




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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Wars of the Roses infantryman's kit - help/suggestions?         Reply with quote

I have been slowly putting together a "kit" for a common foot-soldier who might have fought in the Wars of the Roses. I have a gambeson which I plan to put jack-chains on, an open-faced sallet, a buckler, and a rondel dagger. My main weapon is a glaive.

What other armor might a common soldier from that time and place have worn, in addition to what I already have? Would an Oakeshott Type XIV have been completely out of place, or might a common soldier have had (or been issued from the town armory) an older weapon like that? Would a mail standard/bishop's mantle have been used? What about gauntlets, and if so, what type? Or leg protection? What about shoes or boots (which one would have been more likely, and what kind of either one)? Might a breastplate have been worn over the gambeson, or unlikely for an ordinary soldier?

"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2018 9:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Type XIV's had been out of use for around 100 years, so It's possible, but unlikely. He might instead have a sword like the Del Tin DT5159 -- http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...ntry+Sword


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Yorkist Gunline at Northampton, by Matthew Ryan

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DT5159
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Rich Knack




Location: Charlevoix, MI
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 5:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Type XIV's had been out of use for around 100 years, so It's possible, but unlikely. He might instead have a sword like the Del Tin DT5159 -- http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...ntry+Sword
Would be nice if someone less expensive made a sword like that - Deepeeka or Windlass, for example... that sword costs as much as I have spent on my entire kit, thus far...
"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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Arne G.





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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rich Knack wrote:
Roger Hooper wrote:
Type XIV's had been out of use for around 100 years, so It's possible, but unlikely. He might instead have a sword like the Del Tin DT5159 -- http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...ntry+Sword
Would be nice if someone less expensive made a sword like that - Deepeeka or Windlass, for example... that sword costs as much as I have spent on my entire kit, thus far...


$380 ain't all that bad, really, for a quality piece of kit. I'd say it is worth saving $$$ for, if you really want a good impression.

Having said that, have you really looked at all of the Deepeeka offerings? I'd go directly to the Deepeeka site and see if they don't have something like this on offer, and track down a distributor that has it. KoA carries a lot, but not everything.
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Rich Knack




Location: Charlevoix, MI
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Arne G. wrote:
Rich Knack wrote:
Roger Hooper wrote:
Type XIV's had been out of use for around 100 years, so It's possible, but unlikely. He might instead have a sword like the Del Tin DT5159 -- http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...ntry+Sword
Would be nice if someone less expensive made a sword like that - Deepeeka or Windlass, for example... that sword costs as much as I have spent on my entire kit, thus far...


$380 ain't all that bad, really, for a quality piece of kit. I'd say it is worth saving $$$ for, if you really want a good impression.

Having said that, have you really looked at all of the Deepeeka offerings? I'd go directly to the Deepeeka site and see if they don't have something like this on offer, and track down a distributor that has it. KoA carries a lot, but not everything.
Can't see anything on Deepeeka's website. I DO have a nice custom made grosse messer but I can't see any way an English foot soldier would have gotten hold of one (except maybe looted from a dead mercenary)...
"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maybe you should look at Wulflund in the Czech Republic. Some of their stuff shows up at KOA

https://www.wulflund.com/weapons/swords/other-swords/ellerton-medieval-falchion.html/ -- price in Euros
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Rich Knack




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Maybe you should look at Wulflund in the Czech Republic. Some of their stuff shows up at KOA

https://www.wulflund.com/weapons/swords/other-swords/ellerton-medieval-falchion.html/ -- price in Euros
THAT is much more like it, price wise. Might order one in a couple weeks...

Now, what about the other pieces of kit I mentioned in my original post (additional armor, shoes/boots, etc.)?

"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just thought I'd share this. May not be you're cup 'o tea , but it looks decent. But, then you'd need the arms, legs, mail skirt, gauntlets, etc...etc...etc. It's a vicious cycle... Laughing Out Loud ...........McM

www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=LB25186...auge+Steel

''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Rich Knack




Location: Charlevoix, MI
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
Just thought I'd share this. May not be you're cup 'o tea , but it looks decent. But, then you'd need the arms, legs, mail skirt, gauntlets, etc...etc...etc. It's a vicious cycle... Laughing Out Loud ...........McM

www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=LB25186...auge+Steel
Thanks, but not the sort of thing I am trying to portray. Just a simple, peasant soldier. Padded jack with jack chains, sallet, etc. Just wondering if there is additional armor for the legs, and possibly gauntlets, that such a person might have worn. Or a breastplate over the gambeson.
"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might consider some simple greaves and knee cops. A breastplate would be up to you. I would most def get a pair of clamshell gauntlets. I've seen them in period art depicted with jack chains. Sorry...no links. Been too long ago. Worried .....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Rich Knack




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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
You might consider some simple greaves and knee cops. A breastplate would be up to you. I would most def get a pair of clamshell gauntlets. I've seen them in period art depicted with jack chains. Sorry...no links. Been too long ago. Worried .....McM
I have seen greaves with fixed (non-articulated) knee cops, and no plates for the backs of the legs. Are these in any way historically accurate for the mid to late 1400's?
"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm no expert by any means, but for a common foot soldier, I would say yes. Only the more elite would afford closed greaves and cuisses. Happy BTW---I think you made a good choice in that Wulflund sword! Please write up a review!......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Please excuse me...I just woke up! Laughing Out Loud I didn't fully realize that the sword was only a suggestion. Laughing Out Loud A good suggestion though!.....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Rich Knack




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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
Please excuse me...I just woke up! Laughing Out Loud I didn't fully realize that the sword was only a suggestion. Laughing Out Loud A good suggestion though!.....McM
It's on order as of last night, actually. In fact, I believe it does not come with a scabbard. I have another post asking about period-correct sword belts, scabbards, and suspensions for that sword.
"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rich Knack wrote:
]It's on order as of last night, actually. In fact, I believe it does not come with a scabbard. I have another post asking about period-correct sword belts, scabbards, and suspensions for that sword.


Did you order Wulflund's Ellerton? If so, I'd be interested how long it takes to get to you from the Czech Republic. There are a couple of swords that I am thinking of ordering from them.
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Rich Knack




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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Rich Knack wrote:
]It's on order as of last night, actually. In fact, I believe it does not come with a scabbard. I have another post asking about period-correct sword belts, scabbards, and suspensions for that sword.


Did you order Wulflund's Ellerton? If so, I'd be interested how long it takes to get to you from the Czech Republic. There are a couple of swords that I am thinking of ordering from them.
I'll post as soon as it arrives! Happy
"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are looking for a scabbard, maybe you should go over to the All Swords Facebook page and ask there. You will get some responses.
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Lafayette C Curtis




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PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Type XIV might have been more than a century out of date but you should still be able to get away with something similarly-shaped if you pick a short XV or XVIII. The latter seem to have been particularly popular among infantrymen in the late 15th century.
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Rich Knack




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PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr, 2018 1:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My Wulflund sword arrived a few days ago (will post pics at another date).It had good and bad points.

The good:

Seems to be properly tempered (blade flexes nicely without being floppy)

Substantial tang button - peened construction

Looks good, in my opinion (though more of a "hanger" like the Del Tin than a falchion - which is fine by me)

Price wasn't too bad (though shipping sucked)


The bad:

No distal taper at all

Somewhat blade heavy (POB 4" in front of the guard)

VERY blunt (I have seen swords from India that were easier to sharpen than this one will be - the edge is 2mm thick or slightly over in places!)

No scabbard (a leather one was available for over $100 but I saw the photos and it was not worth the price - looked WAY too modern).

Grip leather is simply wrapped and glued with no stitching.

"Those who 'beat their swords into plows', will plow for those who don't."
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