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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Castille Armory Venetian "Doge-style" Blunt         Reply with quote

I just got this sword from Castille Armory and hope to use it for stage combat.

Here are some specs - in inches (mostly)

OL – 41.75
BL – 34.5
Grip length – 4.75
Pommel length – 2.25
BW (at guard) – 1.375
BW (midpoint) – 0.75
BW (1 inch from tip) – 0.5
Blade Thickness (at guard) – 6.23mm
Blade Thickness (midpoint) – 4.8mm
Blade Thickness (1 inch from tip) – 4.27mm
COG – 4 inches from guard
Weight (according to Castille Armory) 2.3 lbs.

Not much distal taper, though a fair amoung of profile taper.

The grip aluminum/linex, and has somewhat the look and feel of rayskin. Since the pommel is pretty much an extension of the grip, If you wish, you can put both hands on it. The blade has 3mm rounded edges, so it should hold up well to the abuse of stage combat. One thing that bugs me a little – the finger ring is much larger than it needs to be, with an interior diameter of 1.65” - about 2,5 fingers wide. It is very sturdy and won’t crumple when hit. The hilt seems a little too big overall and that finger ring should be reduced to about 1/2 its size.

The sword handles very well and feel fairly light in the hand. It should work well as a stage combat sword, and its edges should hold up well to the abuse that blades must suffer in that venue.



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mighty big finger ring

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Venetian swords2.jpg
some originals that this sword is based on.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Castille Armory Venetian "Doge-style" Blunt         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
One thing that bugs me a little – the finger ring is much larger than it needs to be, with an interior diameter of 1.65” - about 2,5 fingers wide. It is very sturdy and won’t crumple when hit. The hilt seems a little too big overall and that finger ring should be reduced to about 1/2 its size.


Wow... you aren't kidding about it being oversized. The hilt looks a good 30-40% too large and, as you say, the finger-ring is massive! I had seen that sword on Facebook but didn't realize the hilt is so large.

As a point of reference, one's edge of the hand would be resting against/onto the rounded haunches of the pommel of the antique swords in your photo above.

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with you and Nathan that the hilt is too big, the handle too long for the rounded pommel to give support to the heel of the hand compared to the originals or the Albion Doge that I have.

I also see that the small spur on the false edge side of the blade is missing and with a training blunt sword having the spur would permit doing some experimental swordsmanship to see if the spur can have some useful uses ?

These spurs are sort of a mystery but I can imagine that in a bind using the false edge it might give leverage to wind/double around the opponent blade ? Or maybe stop a blade sliding down near the top guard quillon and give some indirect extra protection to the hand ? ( Just speculation ).

As is one could still train with it and take advantage of the finger ring and knuckle protection of the minimally complex guard.

As a stage sword seen from afar it should still work with a historical costume set in early Renaissance Italy like for Romeo and Juliet ?

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Justin H Nunez




Location: Hyde Park, UT
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PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, that finger ring is WAY too big. However, whenever I see an over size ring like that I just think, "maybe they were thinking that they wanted someone with old clunky SCA gauntlets to be able to use it."
Then, I think, "na, they just were not paying attention."
Then a whole bunch of other rationalizations flood in to my mind and then I give up and go play with my swords.

...Seriously speaking though. I think it would be a fun sword to have around. Nice purchase! Now go have fun with it! that's why we all got into this sword business in the first place.

Nothing in fencing is really difficult, it just takes work.
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Speaking as a guy with fairly large hands, I don't see anything wrong with it. Not exactly my cup o' tea as far as sword designs go, but I think it's an excellent choice. I don't really do 'blunts', but I would totally do a pair of those...just to make the neighbors freak out while sparring with a friend of mine. Big Grin Laughing Out Loud Now that the knife laws in Texas have changed, we can do that. Wink .....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
Speaking as a guy with fairly large hands, I don't see anything wrong with it. Not exactly my cup o' tea as far as sword designs go, but I think it's an excellent choice. I don't really do 'blunts', but I would totally do a pair of those...just to make the neighbors freak out while sparring with a friend of mine. Big Grin Laughing Out Loud Now that the knife laws in Texas have changed, we can do that. Wink .....McM


Well aesthetics aside and the fact that it doesn't exactly reproduce the proportions of the original hilts makes the handling probably a bit different, I agree that it might be good for sparring/training.

As I mentioned before the lack of the false edge spur is unfortunate because one can't try to find a use for it.

A blunt version of The Albion Doge with the spur would be very tempting for experimental fencing.

Maybe it would be possible to spot weld a spur without ruining the temper of the blade ? Keeping most the blade cool might be possible during the very localized electric welding ?

Big grip would make it possible to use with heavily padded fencing gloves and maybe the reason for making the hilt oversized.

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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Sep, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I need my reading glasses a lot more these days. I first thought that this thread was titled "Venetian doggie style" .
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Sep, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess this takes away from my status as a purist, but I never liked that spur on this sword type, and was disappointed when Albion decided to put one on their Doge. It made complications for its scabbard, and I figured the spur would constantly make the sword hang up or get entangled with things.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Sep, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
I guess this takes away from my status as a purist, but I never liked that spur on this sword type, and was disappointed when Albion decided to put one on their Doge. It made complications for its scabbard, and I figured the spur would constantly make the sword hang up or get entangled with things.



Obviously you have your own preferences as to aesthetics and function and prefer to not have the spur, but the spur is what makes this type of sword blade unique otherwise one has an early complex hilted of the most basic type with only a finger ring and knuckle protection to distinguish it from a cross hilted sword.

Maybe what one wants with the spur is for it to " Hang Up & Entangled " with the other guy's sword in a useful way ..... Wink Big Grin Cool

Or it's like the traditional mysterious Kukri notch that no one is certain about it having any function other than symbolic or traditional.

Grinding off the spur on the Albion Doge would be simple enough if a bit " sacrilegious " ..... Laughing Out Loud

Roger you are now officially branded a sword heretic that must be burned in the fire of a forge ..... Razz
( I'm joking of course Big Grin )

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I remember in Albion's first drawing design of their Doge, they left off the spur. When many requested that it should be included, the spur was made part of the blade.
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Nils Lindqvist




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Sep, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

About the hilt size, I'm fairly certain that it's to accommodate HEMA-style protective gloves.
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Take a look at Marco Danelli's HEMA version of this sword type. This one is obviously in a higher class than the Castille version. I imagine it costs a lot more. Note that the finger ring on this one also seems rather large. I'd like to see of photo of sword in hand to confirm that.

http://www.danelliarmouries.com/index.php/cus...sword-ss21
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Will Phillips





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PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Take a look at Marco Danelli's HEMA version of this sword type. This one is obviously in a higher class than the Castille version. I imagine it costs a lot more. Note that the finger ring on this one also seems rather large. I'd like to see of photo of sword in hand to confirm that.

http://www.danelliarmouries.com/index.php/cus...sword-ss21


Having purchased two Castille swords, I can testify they are not as historically accurate in construction as the Macro Danelli's and the Arms & Armor's of the world. BUT - they are an order of magnitude cheaper and shipped much, much more quickly. So that can be a trade off that some folks find worthwhile. Since these were to be used for fighting, that worked for me.

Quote:
About the hilt size, I'm fairly certain that it's to accommodate HEMA-style protective gloves.


I had Castille's team try and recreate the German/Austrian half-basket style, and my hilt and finger ring came out oversized, as well, but it works when I have my HEMA padded gloves on and am fighting. When I'm wearing the sword for just reenacting without bulky gloves, it certainly does look oversized to the trained eye.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Take a look at Marco Danelli's HEMA version of this sword type. This one is obviously in a higher class than the Castille version. I imagine it costs a lot more. Note that the finger ring on this one also seems rather large. I'd like to see of photo of sword in hand to confirm that.

http://www.danelliarmouries.com/index.php/cus...sword-ss21


The entire hilt on that sword is only 5 inches long, though. Without doing the math ratios, that makes the grip length about 3 inches or so and the finger-ring about, hmmm... 1.25 inches or so? While the finger-ring does look somewhat large, the overall hilt size does not.

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