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Jordan E. Williams




Location: California
Joined: 25 Mar 2016

Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon 17 Apr, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: US 1860 Cavalry Sabre, maybe a fake? (Help pls)         Reply with quote

http://m.imgur.com/a/DM2jN

Here's an album of pictures. Bought it on Ebay recently after it had a pretty massive price markdown.

What do you guys think? It looks like it has some inspection marks on the pommel, notably J.H., and looks like what's left of the makers mark could have been an S & K, but I'm not sure.

Legit or fake? The grip I think could be a replacement, if it looks very wrong, the pommel to me looks ground down. (Like someone took a file to the peen, it actually looks really similar to a sword I've done that too, a Windlass 1840)

His Imperial and Royal Majesty Hordan Vilhelm the Great, by the Grace of God, German Emperor and King of Prussia, Margrave of Brandenburg, Burgrave of Nuremberg, Count of Hohenzollern, Duke of Silesia and of the County of Glatz, Grand Duke of the Lower Rhine!
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,229

PostPosted: Mon 17 Apr, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks authentic too me. All replicas I have seen miss too much of the subtle shapes.
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Hadrian Coffin
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Posts: 383

PostPosted: Mon 17 Apr, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The oddity is the disparity between the patina on the hilt and blade. Very unusual! It can be due to the blade being in the scabbard --but is blade unmarked?

On the hilt, several points look good. The stamped JH is a good inspector mark:

J.H. ~ John Hannis (1862)
Joseph Hannis (1838-1862)
Joseph Harness (1841-1844)
James Harris (1837-1851)
James Hawkins (1837-1851)
John Hawkins (1841-1852)

Is the stamp JH or J.H. ?
Any stamp on base of blade near guard?

Best,
Hadrian

Historia magistra vitae est
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Jordan E. Williams




Location: California
Joined: 25 Mar 2016

Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon 17 Apr, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka - I haven't seen a replica with a correct grip on nearly any sabre to date. The Windlass 1906 comes close, but it's too thick.



Hadrian Coffin wrote:
The oddity is the disparity between the
patina on the hilt and blade. Very unusual! It can be due to the blade being in the scabbard --but is blade unmarked?

On the hilt, several points look good. The stamped JH is a good inspector mark:

J.H. ~ John Hannis (1862)
Joseph Hannis (1838-1862)
Joseph Harness (1841-1844)
James Harris (1837-1851)
James Hawkins (1837-1851)
John Hawkins (1841-1852)

Is the stamp JH or J.H. ?
Any stamp on base of blade near guard?

Best,
Hadrian


Hi Hadrian, thanks for the info on JH! I do not have it in my possession yet, I bought it at around 1AM this morning after my shift at work. (Impulse Impulse) From the pictures it looks like JH, no periods.

According to the seller there was markings on the blade, however they were "cleaned off", there looks to be a remnant of an "S" on the ricasso, I'm thinking perhaps S & K, like Schnitzler and Kirschbaum.

The massive difference in finish and patina on the blade and hilt actually made me think is was fake the first time I saw it, but looking it over and comparing the patina of the hilt to my French 1822, circa 1876 (perhaps this 1860 saw service against my ancestors on the Indian wars? Probably not lol) and they look to be similar, especially the little divots on the pommel.

His Imperial and Royal Majesty Hordan Vilhelm the Great, by the Grace of God, German Emperor and King of Prussia, Margrave of Brandenburg, Burgrave of Nuremberg, Count of Hohenzollern, Duke of Silesia and of the County of Glatz, Grand Duke of the Lower Rhine!
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