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Sabine Hüttner




Location: Germany
Joined: 22 Jan 2017

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Chain shirt - found on the attic         Reply with quote

Hello,
this is a typical item, comes out the darkness of an attic, with no references to the origin or the age.
I would be very happy if I could get information about it.
More pictures are avaliable
Thank you so much!



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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Uhhhh.....Wow! I believe you might really have something there! Yes, more pics...Please! Big Grin ........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Peter Spätling
Industry Professional



Location: Germany
Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 118

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello and welcome to the forum!

I just have to agree with Mark Moore here, more pictures would be great. Also where it came from exactly?

Thank you


Grüße

Peter
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
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Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One thing I DO know....that's no modern mail. And I'm pretty sure it's not a Victorian-era recreation. If it is, its a damn good one......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Bram Verbeek





Joined: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 217

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This seems like a very nice find! Don't withold pictures from us, but I think this is one of the times where you might not wish to solely rely on pictures for identification. Be careful handling it though.

So could you give us more pictures? A ruler would help on a picture with about this part, because it's hard to guess the size of the rings. Also, a picture of the whole shirt.

I think I see rivets in only half of the horizontal rows of rings, which seems to indicate it is quite old (if european).
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 484

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
One thing I DO know....that's no modern mail. And I'm pretty sure it's not a Victorian-era recreation. If it is, its a damn good one......McM


I think it is older than that. And with the others we need more photos

David L Smith
MSG (RET)
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Sun 22 Jan, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, David.....A LOT older. It reminds me of a type I remember seeing here in the long forum thread on chain mail....just don't remember which. You can tell by the way some of the rings are worn down, this stuff was used for a long time. I'm betting it's European, but from where is anyone's guess....where and when. Question .......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Sabine Hüttner




Location: Germany
Joined: 22 Jan 2017

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello and thanks for the recent answers!
It is nice to hear that it is probably not a replica of the 21st century. It is clear to me, that only a scientific metallurgical investigation will ultimately bring facts, but this would hardly be worthwhile if it is a modern piece. Attached photos..



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Kette ganz.jpg


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Kette mass.jpg


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Kette Niete.jpg

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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,190

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My first guess is Turko-Persian, perhaps 15th-17th C.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Bram Verbeek





Joined: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 217

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think I see the inner diameter being about a cm, maybe a bit less with the rings closed, and the diameter of the rings being 1,5 to 12mm, so it's not a heavy shirt, the design looks a bit middle eastern, so Dan might be in the right place (and he's much more knowledgable than me). The lightness to me would suggest a bit later sooner than earlier, but I would love to be corrected in both cases.

There's active rust on it, so please be careful with handling it barehanded (the sweat from your hands will accellerate rust) and keep it very dry. The loose ring could be used for testing the metal, which would give you good identification of the origin.
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Ralph Grinly





Joined: 19 Jan 2011

Posts: 321

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One thing that might help to narrow down the origon of this mail is to say just where in the world this attic is ? If it's in the UK, it's possible that it's a trophy brought home from one of the many Victorian military campaigns in India or the Middle East. Mail was still being worn in those areas in the 19th C.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm in agreement with Dan. It's most likely from the Middle East.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Bram Verbeek





Joined: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 217

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ralph Grinly wrote:
One thing that might help to narrow down the origon of this mail is to say just where in the world this attic is ? If it's in the UK, it's possible that it's a trophy brought home from one of the many Victorian military campaigns in India or the Middle East. Mail was still being worn in those areas in the 19th C.


The user is from Germany. Safe bet is that the attic is too.
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Chain shirt - found on the attic         Reply with quote

Sabine Hüttner wrote:
Hello,
this is a typical item, comes out the darkness of an attic, with no references to the origin or the age.
I would be very happy if I could get information about it.
More pictures are avaliable
Thank you so much!

Sabine, it looks typical Ottoman, alternating rows of solid links and round riveted links, figuring out an age can be difficult, any were from the 1500s to the 1700s possibly. Some more, clear, detailed images from both the inside and outside of the links may be helpful. Can you weight it as well?
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