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Harry Marinakis




Location: Kingdom of Ćthelmearc
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Aug, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Magyar archery data sought         Reply with quote

I am looking for specific references regarding medieval Magyar archery equipment (specifically, arrows for horse bows, and quivers). Museum pieces and research articles are preferred.

I have been spending a lot of time searching online, and have ordered some books, but I'm not finding anything that is really satisfying.

My final goal is to make some reproduction Magyar arrows and quivers.

I appreciate your help.
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Aug, 2016 2:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Mitchell would be the man to ask.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Gábor Benko




Location: Hungary
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Aug, 2016 2:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What period do you looking for? If you give me a century, I could help you. I'm a Hungarian so hopefully I'll find something useful for you.
"Usque ad finem"
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Harry Marinakis




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PostPosted: Sat 27 Aug, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gábor Benko wrote:
What period do you looking for? If you give me a century, I could help you. I'm a Hungarian so hopefully I'll find something useful for you.

Wonderful!

The century is medieval, but I can't narrow it down any further at this time.

Here is a picture of my friend and her bow. She told me that it is a Hungarian horsebow. I am trying to find information about these types of bows in order to determine the century that these bows were used. In the second photo, she is shooting some medieval war arrows that I made.

I would like to make a Magyar-style bow case, quiver and arrows for her.

I am having difficulty finding archeology records or museum photos of Magyar archery equipment. I found a few examples of bow case/quiver but I am not sure which is correct and I do not have specific references.

Thank you/Köszönöm



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David Hohl




Location: Oregon
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2016 9:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The drawing there in the middle is about as good a guess as anyone has, to my knowledge. The photos lower down are Turkish or Persian, and much more recent. The thing about this typenofnequipment is that it almost never survives so you're pretty much never going to get a good answer archaeologically. http://www.atarn.org/subject_index.htm atarn has the best discussions I know of, mainly based on contemporary art.

As for the bow it looks appropriate to me; bows like that were used from the 8th century to the 16th, with some subtle alterations over time. You're definitely ok for your goal of 'medieval'.

I'm no expert on arrows, but they would have been pretty long, and likely have more space between the nock and the fletching than European arrows.

Personally I've made a quiver and bow case in similar style, and they work very well; I definitely prefer the quiver to any others I've tried.
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Harry Marinakis




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PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2016 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks David
Got any specific references for me besides the ATARN website?
Thanks again
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2016 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry Marinakis wrote:
I would like to make a Magyar-style bow case, quiver and arrows for her.

I am having difficulty finding archeology records or museum photos of Magyar archery equipment. I found a few examples of bow case/quiver but I am not sure which is correct and I do not have specific references.


The same general type of bows were used in Hungary from as soon as horsearchers moved into Hungary from the main part of the Eurasian steppe, to the time when archery was pushed off the battlefield. Most of the Hungarian bows I've seen in art had fairly short siyahs/ears, shorter than the one in your photo. Archaeology says that long siyahs like this were in use in the early Medieval period. I wouldn't rule long siyahs out for later periods based on the available artwork.

So the bow doesn't restrict your choice of time.

The hard closed tip-up quiver appears in Hungarian relevant art until quite late, and archaeologically in the western parts of the Steppe quite early, so should be OK for any Medieval time period.

Art also shows the soft long tip-down quiver, with the quiver reaching the beginning of the fletching. These quivers were used very early in Persia and India, were used by the Byzantines, and used in Western Europe. Relevant art shows them in use quite late, so these might be OK for any Medieval time period too.

The short hip quiver, as in your bottom photo, was certainly used in the area in the late Medieval period, but I haven't seen any evidence that it was used in Hungary. Plenty of Ottoman and Russian examples. (And a longer version, reaching almost to the fletching, was used in Italy, though worn lower rather than at the hip.) For earlier periods, I'd work on finding out when this style of quiver appeared in the area.

The bow cases look OK.

I'll look to see if I can find anything about specific archaeological finds.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug, 2016 6:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some reading for you:
http://www.academia.edu/download/10260226/Eastern_archery1.pdf
http://aac.czasopisma.pan.pl/images/data/aac/...i%20in.pdf
http://forum.ridator.ru/transfer/attachments/1380867855g30.pdf

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Harry Marinakis




Location: Kingdom of Ćthelmearc
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PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep, 2016 5:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Update:
I did a lot more research on the Steppe peoples, and that offered a lot more insight into the issue than trying to find specific references on bow cases or quivers.

Thanks, I think the problem has been solved
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