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Neal Colleran




Location: Bluffton, SC, USA
Joined: 09 Apr 2015

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Mar, 2016 6:41 am    Post subject: Information on the use of the type X sword in Ireland?         Reply with quote

I know the type X was a popular blade profile from roughly 800 up into the 1100s. I wanted information and examples of its use in Ireland. I know before the Vikings came the Irish had Romanesque swords and interesting blades. Owning a sword was rare, especially in Ireland. But I'm referring to the Irish nobility who could own a sword. I've found books talking about the trade posts the Vikings created and there was definitely trade amongst the Irish and the Vikings.

So if anyone has more info on the type X blades use in Ireland I would love to hear it.

- Neal Colleran
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Mar, 2016 7:19 am    Post subject: Information on the use of the type X sword in Ireland?         Reply with quote

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I don't know where to find info on the use of type X swords in Ireland even on the Web.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Mar, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Plenty of "Viking" swords have been found in Ireland. Knowing exactly who used them may not be so easy to know, although swords found in graves are usually accompanied with other stuff so we mostly do know who was buried in them. I hope someone can be more helpful about this.
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Neal Colleran




Location: Bluffton, SC, USA
Joined: 09 Apr 2015

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat 12 Mar, 2016 10:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is the Lough derg sword that is a type X that has distinct Irish knots. So that sword is an example of a type X Irish. I'm curious if there are more.


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- Neal Colleran
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Sat 12 Mar, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Neal Colleran wrote:
There is the Lough derg sword that is a type X that has distinct Irish knots. So that sword is an example of a type X Irish. I'm curious if there are more.


Not quite. There are a number of questions to be asked...

--Is it an Irish sword, as in made in Ireland entirely?

--Is it a Viking sword with hilt additions in Irish style?

--is it actually a Viking art style similar to Irish artwork? Knotwork has existed in various regions at different times, after all...

So those are considerations.

The blade appears to be somewhat unusual in that it looks like the fuller starts *after* the guard?
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Neal Colleran




Location: Bluffton, SC, USA
Joined: 09 Apr 2015

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey Faulk wrote:
Neal Colleran wrote:
There is the Lough derg sword that is a type X that has distinct Irish knots. So that sword is an example of a type X Irish. I'm curious if there are more.


Not quite. There are a number of questions to be asked...

--Is it an Irish sword, as in made in Ireland entirely?

--Is it a Viking sword with hilt additions in Irish style?

--is it actually a Viking art style similar to Irish artwork? Knotwork has existed in various regions at different times, after all...

So those are considerations.

The blade appears to be somewhat unusual in that it looks like the fuller starts *after* the guard?


It is a type X. I have examined many pictures of it. Is a late 11th or early 12th century blade. The books I have read state that the fittings are Irish and the knots are distinctly Irish. If you compare Norse knot work and Irish knot work you can see differences. The fittings are made of metals and alloys that are easier for the Irish to obtain and work with. Ireland didn't exactly have the best means to create great steel or Iron.

The blade could very well be Scandinavian, Frankish, or even Irish. I would bet it was made in Frankia.

I hate to call the type X a 'Viking sword' because it was used all over Northern Europe. It was a poor choice of words calling it an 'Irish sword' more like an 'Irish owned sword.' Haha

- Neal Colleran
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Wed 16 Mar, 2016 7:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good answer. The best way then to describe it would be "an imported blade with locally made Irish fittings", then?

Of course that could be the case with a very great number of swords, so yeah, at a certain level "Irish sword" is quite all right Happy
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Neil Melville




Location: Scotland
Joined: 27 Oct 2009

Posts: 181

PostPosted: Wed 16 Mar, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could compare this with the Scottish basket-hilted sword - universally regarded as 'Scottish' even though the blade was almost always a German (mostly Solingen) import. Where the blade was hilted seems to define the sword's nationality. I imagine that the well-known Irish ring pommel hilt swords were based on German blades too.
Neil

N Melville
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