Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Any Good Sources For Historically Accurate Mail Tailoring? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2016 11:07 am    Post subject: Any Good Sources For Historically Accurate Mail Tailoring?         Reply with quote

It's been a couple decades since I made a mail shirt but I figure it's about that time again. I'll be going the welded stainless route, as a martial artist I'm fine with updated materials and processes but I still want the cut and construction to be close to the ancient stuff. Have any surviving original shirts been examined in such a way as to determine exactly what the pattern was and how it was originally put together? I've heard there's some evidence that at least some shirts were formed of pre-made triangular and rectangular pieces. Ideally I'd like an 11th c. pattern but failing that I'd be happy with anything up through the 16th c, pre-15th c. would be great.
View user's profile Send private message
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,268

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

https://www.academia.edu/19694568/The_Iron_Tunic_from_Vimose_Funen_Denmark_Further_Research_into_the_Construction_of_Mail_Garments
http://www.erikds.com/pdf/tmrs_pdf_2.pdf
http://www.erikds.com/pdf/tmrs_pdf_3.pdf
http://www.erikds.com/pdf/tmrs_pdf_12.pdf
http://www.erikds.com/pdf/tmrs_pdf_13.pdf
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/trevor.barker/fa....htm#sect3
http://www.allenantiques.com/M-2.html

Among others.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Mart, that'll get me going!
View user's profile Send private message
Mark T




PostPosted: Sun 24 Jan, 2016 11:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike - also do a search here for 'gore' ...
Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

Schallern sind sehr sexy!
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After quite a bit of digging around it looks like there isn't any known 11th century mail that has survived and the examples I've found that are closest in age don't seem to have much tailoring. The most likely thing is that the back is made a little wider and taller than the chest, half sleeves don't appear to have been tapered. "Barrel and straps" looks to be the most common construction and in many cases the coif was integrated but a separate coif or even an aventail is defensible. Where it gets weird is with the skirt, the Bayeux Tapestry and some other art sources show closed "trunks" instead of a skirt but this would require an opening at the top somewhere and the haubergeon would have taken off from top to bottom, exactly the reverse is shown in the tapestry when the dead are being stripped of their armor. The only way I see that working in real life is if the front of the skirt is somehow laced to the back of the skirt to protect the inside of the thighs. As far as links go I think half solid punched plus half dome riveted round wire links is safe but there is wild variation in wire thickness and link diameter, not just due to oxidation either.

In short 11th century mail is going to be an educated guess, you'll have to go later or earlier if you want a known accurate reproduction and even then not many shirts have been documented well enough. This is an area of research I hope will boom someday soon, it seems like tons of people are interested in the data.
View user's profile Send private message
Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 795

PostPosted: Sat 20 Feb, 2016 5:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Ruhala wrote:
After quite a bit of digging around it looks like there isn't any known 11th century mail that has survived and the examples I've found that are closest in age don't seem to have much tailoring..............................................................
In short 11th century mail is going to be an educated guess, you'll have to go later or earlier if you want a known accurate reproduction and even then not many shirts have been documented well enough. This is an area of research I hope will boom someday soon, it seems like tons of people are interested in the data.
Mike, there are not many existing examples. The best I know are the tunic shaped Vimbose shirt which is way earlier and the St. Wenceslaus one which is said to be 10th century. Both are tailored to some extent.




View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sat 20 Feb, 2016 7:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I seem to recall that the St. Wenceslas mail post-dates the 10th century, according to the signs in Prague.
View user's profile Send private message
Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 795

PostPosted: Sat 20 Feb, 2016 9:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
I seem to recall that the St. Wenceslas mail post-dates the 10th century, according to the signs in Prague.
Craig, if the St. Wenceslas shirt actually belonged to him it would have to be from the 10th century but there may not be absolute proof.

St. Wenceslas:born: 907 AD, Prague, Czech Republic, assassinated: September 28, 935 AD.

The Knight and the Blast Furnace: A History of the Metallurgy of Armour in the Middle Ages & the Early Modern Period, Alan R. Williams, 2003
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Any Good Sources For Historically Accurate Mail Tailoring?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum