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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sun 25 Oct, 2015 3:15 am    Post subject: Bruhn-Hoffmeyer Brazil Nut Sword         Reply with quote

In the article on Ada Brunn-Hoffmeyer's sword typology, there is mention of a sword with a brazil nut pommel from Rouen in Chateau Gaillard. Does this sword still survive? Where is it now? Are there photos and is there information about it?
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Shahril Dzulkifli




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PostPosted: Tue 27 Oct, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Bruhn-Hoffmeyer Brazil Nut Sword         Reply with quote

We would never know either this sword still survives to this this day or not.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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Mark Lewis





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PostPosted: Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's illustrated in Middelalderens Tvaeggede Svaerd and seems to now be held in the Museum of Evreux:



This image came with the caption:
"Epée. Avec inscription damasquinée sur les deux faces de la lame : « MEUS DEUS »
(L. 670 mm ; 1. 62 mm).
Provenance : Le Petit-Andelys (27).
Dépôt : Evreux, Musée municipal, N° Inv. 7084.
Références :
- Medieval Catalogue, 1954, pp. 22 et 30, fig. I, n° III.
- Rouen, Musée des Antiquités, une épée provenant de Paris N° Inv. III, 1803."

The sword seems to have lost a large portion of the blade since Bruhn-Hoffmeyer illustrated it, but the inscription and pommel are distinctive and consistent.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 27 Oct, 2015 11:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So the sword has lost even more of the blade now? I am assuming the illustration comes from the book. Too bad we don't have a photo, as it's hard to say what kind of blade the sword had. It looks like it might have been Type X, but without the point of the sword I can't be sure.

Thanks for posting!
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Mark Lewis





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PostPosted: Wed 28 Oct, 2015 6:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
So the sword has lost even more of the blade now? I am assuming the illustration comes from the book. Too bad we don't have a photo, as it's hard to say what kind of blade the sword had. It looks like it might have been Type X, but without the point of the sword I can't be sure.

Actually this illustration is more recent and shows the "short version"... I think it was in a photo database of French museums.

Hoffmeyer's illustration shows a full-length blade, but with an indication of the break-point I now see, so possibly the sword was always broken and the other fragment is still held by the museum. Her illustration is unusual actually... it shows a strongly tapering blade like an XII, but seemingly a nearly full length fuller. Here the fuller appears noticeably more narrow compared to the more recent illustration, so I'm not sure how reliable this is...

The inscription is very interesting I think... compared to a few others inlaid with a bird motif, I think this one is the most similar to the birds/beasts in the margins of the Bayeux tapestry. Would be interesting if the Norman provenance of each was more than just coincidence...

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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

very strange.
what puzzles me a bit is, how could it lose the crossguard without losing the pommel first ? Confused

obviously it could not happen without applying force. if the crossguard got lost due to natural rusting/aging processes, the tang, which is even thinner, would probably have broken first.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 29 Oct, 2015 1:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gottfried,

There are other antique swords that survive with a pommel and not the cross, so this cannot be so unusual as you suppose. If the cross had impurities or other problems with the metal (I don't know much about metallurgy, hence my vagueness) it's possible that the cross might have broken when the sword was used. Alternatively, if the sword was buried in the ground or a river and the cross, but not the thinnest part of the tang, was exposed to material that would corrode it, the cross might have been in poor condition when the sword was recovered.

Both of my ideas are just speculation. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could contribute their insights.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct, 2015 6:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What is your interest in this sword Craig?
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct, 2015 10:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote:
What is your interest in this sword Craig?


I'm hoping that you want to have it made Craig... It would be a gorgeous sword. After seeing that drawing, I think someone has to step up to the plate and have it made.... That inlay is just awesome!
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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
If the cross had impurities or other problems with the metal (I don't know much about metallurgy, hence my vagueness) it's possible that the cross might have broken when the sword was used. Alternatively, if the sword was buried in the ground or a river and the cross, but not the thinnest part of the tang, was exposed to material that would corrode it, the cross might have been in poor condition when the sword was recovered.


i think, the metallurgy point you bring up is very important. i (and probably most of us) usually tend to have a picture of metal in mind, that matches our modern material. understandable, as 99% of us only know modern replicas.
perfectly crafted, no impurities...solid material...
i remember this also being brought as an argument by leo todeschini, when trying to explain, why medieval crossbows have such a high draw-weight, but such a low draw-length.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim Lison wrote:
J.D. Crawford wrote:
What is your interest in this sword Craig?


I'm hoping that you want to have it made Craig... It would be a gorgeous sword. After seeing that drawing, I think someone has to step up to the plate and have it made.... That inlay is just awesome!


You may have to lead the way Tim. At the moment, I lack the financial resources to make it feasible. Even if I did, there are other swords much higher on my list of priorities. The inlay is quite unusual and would certainly make for a striking reproduction.

My interest in this sword, Doug, is mostly just curiousity. I like seeing Brazil Nut swords, particularly the later ones, and since I had not heard of this one before, I was interested to see if anyone knew more about it. Thanks to Mark, we now do.
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct, 2015 4:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Tim Lison wrote:
J.D. Crawford wrote:
What is your interest in this sword Craig?


I'm hoping that you want to have it made Craig... It would be a gorgeous sword. After seeing that drawing, I think someone has to step up to the plate and have it made.... That inlay is just awesome!


You may have to lead the way Tim. At the moment, I lack the financial resources to make it feasible. Even if I did, there are other swords much higher on my list of priorities. The inlay is quite unusual and would certainly make for a striking reproduction.

My interest in this sword, Doug, is mostly just curiousity. I like seeing Brazil Nut swords, particularly the later ones, and since I had not heard of this one before, I was interested to see if anyone knew more about it. Thanks to Mark, we now do.


Thanks for bringing this sword to my attention, and thanks also to Doug for the pics. I LOVE this site! I may have to have this one made.... As you said, Craig, that inlay would make for a striking reproduction....
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