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Tom Wolfe




Location: East Anglia, England
Joined: 10 Aug 2015

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2015 3:19 am    Post subject: Any thoughts on age and origin of this mail shirt?         Reply with quote

Some other users on here have been very helpful to me in providing me with some great research sources in order to expand my knowledge of maille (Eric S, Dan Howard, Mart Shearer, my thanks to you in particular).

That being so, and with the information I have absorbed, I have been sent these photos of a maille shirt, by a dealer who thought I might be interested in buying it. I don't actually think I am very interested, but it is good to look and learn.

Difficult to tell origin or riveting technique, as don't have view of the inside of the rivets, and don't know the size of the links, other than by looking at the size in relation to the whole shirt and extrapolating a rough idea of scale from that. All riveted so, if European would be post 14th century.

My impression:

Age-wise most probably 16th-17th century
Origin: could be European provenance? Doesn't look typically like the Indo-Persian or Ottoman maille I have seen.
Obviously would need more photos and interior views to know more.

Any thoughts? Thanks.



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Collector of original 16th-17th century European arms and armour. Would like to collect earlier, but budget doesn't allow- yet!
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 803

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2015 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Any thoughts on age and origin of this mail shirt?         Reply with quote

Tom Wolfe wrote:
I have been sent these photos of a maille shirt, by a dealer who thought I might be interested in buying it. I don't actually think I am very interested, but it is good to look and learn.

Difficult to tell origin or riveting technique, as don't have view of the inside of the rivets, and don't know the size of the links, other than by looking at the size in relation to the whole shirt and extrapolating a rough idea of scale from that. All riveted so, if European would be post 14th century.

My impression:

Age-wise most probably 16th-17th century
Origin: could be European provenance? Doesn't look typically like the Indo-Persian or Ottoman maille I have seen.
Obviously would need more photos and interior views to know more.

Any thoughts? Thanks.


It is all round riveted mail, not Indo-Persian in my opinion so I would say it was European except supposedly European round riveted mail was alternated with rows of solid links, what did the dealer say about it?
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It reminds me quite a bit of the 19th century (Tsar Nikolai I) Russian mail which Eric has posted before. The wire looks fairly modern.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368071827265/

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional



Location: upstate NY
Joined: 10 Nov 2005

Posts: 528

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2015 7:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The link that we can see edge-on appears to have two heads.
jamesarlen.com
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 803

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2015 11:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:
The link that we can see edge-on appears to have two heads.
Round riveted mail would have a rivet head showing on both sides.
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 803

PostPosted: Thu 22 Oct, 2015 11:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
It reminds me quite a bit of the 19th century (Tsar Nikolai I) Russian mail which Eric has posted before. The wire looks fairly modern.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368071827265/


Mart, I was thinking about this exact mail today, maybe an older version.

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Tom Wolfe




Location: East Anglia, England
Joined: 10 Aug 2015

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri 23 Oct, 2015 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: Any thoughts on age and origin of this mail shirt?         Reply with quote

Eric S wrote:


It is all round riveted mail, not Indo-Persian in my opinion so I would say it was European except supposedly European round riveted mail was alternated with rows of solid links, what did the dealer say about it?


Thanks Eric. I actually don't know anything about what the dealer reckons it is- I've sent a couple of follow up emails asking for details but he's stopped replying. If I get any info I will share it of course.

Collector of original 16th-17th century European arms and armour. Would like to collect earlier, but budget doesn't allow- yet!
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Tom Wolfe




Location: East Anglia, England
Joined: 10 Aug 2015

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri 23 Oct, 2015 2:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
It reminds me quite a bit of the 19th century (Tsar Nikolai I) Russian mail which Eric has posted before. The wire looks fairly modern.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368071827265/


Thanks Mart, I can see the clear similarity there. I'm trying to get more info from the dealer, but not forthcoming at the moment. So you reckon this could be quite late maille then, maybe 18th-19th century? And Eastern European/Russian rather than say Western or Southern European?

Collector of original 16th-17th century European arms and armour. Would like to collect earlier, but budget doesn't allow- yet!
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Fri 23 Oct, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd say that's a good "best guess".
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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