Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Baptist Sword in Gospels of Otto III: original art? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,610

PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2015 7:21 am    Post subject: Baptist Sword in Gospels of Otto III: original art?         Reply with quote

There is an interesting sword drawn in Figure 49 of Oakeshott's Sword in the Age of Chivalry (see below). It is said to be drawn from original art in 'The Gospels of Otto III' and depict the beheading of John the Baptist. Does anyone have the original image?

Its interesting to me because of:

- the two piece pommel - maybe intentionally anachronistic to look like 'biblical times' (the original art dates to 998).
- otherwise the long Ia cross and wide blade are consistent with other swords drawn in the book
- except, the fuller is drawn to be very narrow, which could make this an early depiction of a type XIa (assuming the drawing is accurate to the original art and the original art is an accurate depiction of a real weapon, which seems to be the case for other art in the book).

Again, would be nice to see the original art but I can't find it on-line.

-JD



 Attachment: 77.57 KB
SAC Fig. 49.png

View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That would be BSB Clm 4453, which has yet to be fully digitized. Clm 4452 and 4454 are available as an example of the style, but not much use for your specific search:
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0008/bsb00087481/images/
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00...index.html

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,235

PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2015 3:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In my opinion, the artist wanted to picture a type Y sword. It is the right period for them and the looks are right, he maybe just missed a bit of the concavity of the pommel... They even have the line separating "upper guard" and pommel. Maybe some of them are even two piece.


 Attachment: 5.81 KB
notice08nj_177.jpg


 Attachment: 6.51 KB
ulfberht_wurttemberg_landesmuseum_stuttgartphp_752.jpg


 Attachment: 26.81 KB
viking_swords_wikingermuseum_in_hedeby_127.jpg


 Attachment: 29.8 KB
IMG_2857.jpg


 Attachment: 127.42 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,610

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
In my opinion, the artist wanted to picture a type Y sword. It is the right period for them and the looks are right, he maybe just missed a bit of the concavity of the pommel... They even have the line separating "upper guard" and pommel. Maybe some of them are even two piece.


I was thinking something similar Luka; Oakeshott called it an N, which would have been a century out of date, but a Y could have been drawn from life. Would be nice to see the original to see how ambiguous it was or was not.

By the way, have you seen the Michael Pikula version of your first pictured sword, owned by Tim Lison? That's a classic.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Baptist Sword in Gospels of Otto III: original art?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum