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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Flattening a diamond cross section to flat lenticular on XIV         Reply with quote

Hi all,

I am currently doing quite a bit of work on my Windlass XIV sword with changing the guard, leatherwork and removing bevels etc.. I am now considering removing the diamond cross section in the tip, to become more of a flat lenticular shape to emulate the Albion XIV offerings.
I have done this successfully on a H/T viking sword and I think although it should be easy enough to do on the XIV as the steel is quite soft and easy to work.

Now my question is.. should I do it?

Would I have to flatten the rest of the sword blade? Will the cop etc be negatively affected?
I am not sure, but I wouldn't mind the sword becoming a little bit less tip-heavy.

Anyways I plan to do this tomorrow during my day off, so if I could have some thoughts either way by the, that would be fantastic.

Thanks a lot! Happy
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Eric W. Norenberg





Joined: 18 Jul 2008

Posts: 265

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi William,
I say go for it! Work from the far end (closest to the pointy end) of the fuller toward the tip, and I'd guess you can not worry one bit about re-shaping the closer end of the blade. Keep that part thicker for a closer POB. Windlass seems to forge everything to a flattened diamond section then cut the fuller out of the spine, so their blades often gain a mm or so in thickness as you transition from fuller end to the final section of the blade. If you knock that flattened diamond down to lenticular (or even a soft hexagonal section), you should in theory (whether you can measure it or not) get a closer POB and improved cutting performance. On such a short, wide blade your center of percussion may only move a cm or so, probably won't be appreciable. I did this to an old MRL/Del Tin some time back and I did notice a shift (toward the hilt) in the COP of a few inches, but I took a lot of material off, and it was a 38" long war sword. The payoff was a MUCH livelier blade and actually less wobble while in motion (it was not a noodle-y blade to begin with really).

Let us know how it goes!
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 12:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am getting second thoughts now after reading up on the forum on how the original sword does seem to have a diamond cross section. Additionally the blade may be a bit too pointy to look good with a flattened tip section.

What do you think?

Source: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9087
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Hector A.





Joined: 22 Dec 2013

Posts: 137

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William M wrote:
I am getting second thoughts now after reading up on the forum on how the original sword does seem to have a diamond cross section. Additionally the blade may be a bit too pointy to look good with a flattened tip section.

What do you think?

Source: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9087


Really depends what your looking for, a war sword or a riding sword.

If you want a more personal defense in an everyday setting type of sword go for the lenticular cross, it will be better at cutting clothing and the change in mass and balance will make it suitable for sword and buckler use.

If you want it to be a sword you can take to war and use confidently against mail, that was the primary defense of this type of swords day, then keep it diamond for strength, and the tip heavy for power.

Hope this helps, good luck Happy.
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good point Hector. I was wondering on if the sword is too narrow near the tip for a lenticular shape to look good. Hmmm Time to find some examples!
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Bryan Heff




Location: Philadelphia
Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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Posts: 355

PostPosted: Mon 17 Nov, 2014 5:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I did exactly what you are planning on doing as well but on a Windlass Ulfberht. It's tip section also had a diamond cross section and for an X type....it really bugged me. I removed it with a sanding drum using a hand held drill, then lots of hand sanding with varying sand paper to remove the grind marks...it turned out really nice. The amount of ridge that had to be removed was only a few inches as the fuller on that model goes nearly to the tip.

Good luck!

The church is near but the roads are icy. The tavern is far but I will walk carefully. - Russian Proverb
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Mon 17 Nov, 2014 5:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After doing some research it seems that the XIV is split into two sub sections. One with the flat, which was developed first and evolved from type X. The other XIV with the mid-rib was developed to better combat armour and came slightly after.

From the examples that I have seen, it looks like the swords with the fuller at half the length of the blade tend to be flat, while those with the fuller stretching further to 2/3 of the blade tend to have the mid-rib.

As this sword's fuller extends to 2/3 of the blade, I am now wondering if keeping the mid-rib would be more appropriate for sword.
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Mon 17 Nov, 2014 9:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you want to reduce the blade's weight and don't want to spend ages draw-filing it?

A small belt sander will do the trick. Very quickly. So use extreme care. A high grit like 120 or 220 is also helpful as it will be less rough/abrasive than a lower grit like 80 or 60. Don't even think about 40. 320 or 440 will work, but they would take quite some time. If you're using a hand-held model rather than a benchtop sander-- don't use a slack belt model for this, by the way-- clamp it on top of a table or bench so that the belt faces upward. Some form of lubricant to the belt may be helpful, afraid I can't really suggest anything though as I don't know what's in your area. You may definitely want a crepe-rubber belt-cleaning block, though.

The blade should ideally be disassembled, but if you don't want to knock off the peen, at least remove the grip and slide the guard up to the pommel so it'll be less likely to get damaged. Apply the blade along the planes of each face to the belt sander with care. Light strokes along the length of the blade with a bit of pressure at the tip. If you want to round off the mid-rib, just kind of stroke that along the belt. Be sure to keep a wet towel at hand to wipe up and down the blade fairly often to brush away the metal dust and keep the blade cool.

This takes some time and practice. At least it's a Windlass and not an Albion, eh Happy
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

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Posts: 1,587

PostPosted: Thu 20 Nov, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I used to do this, before I a) got into custom swords, and b) started getting very specific about what I want.

Here's my method with some examples: http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21278

This method involved no special equipment or skill, just a lot of time, sandpaper, and elbow grease. I guess one advantage is that you don't have to worry about a sudden big mistake (other than cutting yourself) or altering heat treatment (as long as one does not focus on one part of the blade over-long). On the long bladed swords shown here, there was a measureable drop in CoG/PoB and noticeable improvement in handling, although I doubt one would notice it so much with a short-bladed XIV.
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Fri 21 Nov, 2014 12:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think I will have a problem with removing the central ridge and flattening out the blade as I have done this before with my H/T viking sword. However I was using a flap disk grinder, which now doesn't work... Hmm, going to use the dremel for this one I think.

What is on my mind though is if the blade is too pointy to be suitable for a flat blade as the profile taper is quite different compared to the albion XIV swords.


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