Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > What is it with Gothic armor? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next 
Author Message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject: What is it with Gothic armor?         Reply with quote

That makes it so unpopular with reenactment?

At any gathering you will see a ton of people in Italian looking armor with an armet. Another significant portion wearing a sallet but with either Italian styled armor or English armor, and virtually no one in fluted Gothic armor.

Is it too expensive to make? Is it not historical or do people hate the look? Does the wasp waist or the protruding crotch mail make people feel uncomfortable? Or is their some unwritten rule that no Gothic armor is allowed on non-German reenactments? WTF?!

I hope this starts a good discussion. Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps I should specify High Gothic, but I am pretty sure you know what I mean.
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,220

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess it's the higher price... I don't believe high gothic wouldn't be visually pleasing to reenactors...
View user's profile Send private message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct, 2014 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
I guess it's the higher price... I don't believe high gothic wouldn't be visually pleasing to reenactors...


There must be some out there who like it right?
View user's profile Send private message
Marik C.S.




Location: Germany
Joined: 16 Feb 2010

Posts: 163

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My guess would be price and availability.

While you can go and pick up a very basic kit of armour at a more or less decent price these days - at least good enough for most reenactment events - almost anywhere, it is much harder to find someone to make you a nice fluted set.

It might also be harder to pick&mix your armour pieces - as many people who buy their kit over a long period of time tend to do rather than get it all in one go - because non-matching fluting is quite likely much more jarring than not perfectly matching italian armour.

Europe - Where the History comes from. - Eddie Izzard
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,272

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, I LOVE Gothic armor! But I can't afford it--couldn't even afford it back in the old days when folks were using pretty crappy cheap stuff. REALLY can't afford it now that my standards are higher! And I can't make it. Probably at least partly why I never got serious about doing the 15th century, which is a really COOL era.

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,158

PostPosted: Fri 17 Oct, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm the same. I love Gothic plate but doubt I'll ever own a suit. I hope to get a nice sallet made at some point but that will probably be the closest I'll ever get.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 1:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I though about buying just the cuirass before...it looks very pleasing to the eye.
View user's profile Send private message
William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,428

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 2:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

for years and years i was eying the custom gothic harness madeby manning imperials craig sitch...

i LOVE gothic as well the gauntlets in particular, and the sallet and bevor combination, nd the sabatons i love.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Baard H




Location: Norway
Joined: 13 Mar 2013

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 3:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One day, oh glorious day! I shall acquire a full gothic plate armour. When I have the time for that era... and money...
Until then I'll have to stay in maille-age.

At kveldi skal dag leyfa,
konu, er brennd er,
mæki, er reyndr er,
mey, er gefin er,
ís, er yfir kemr,
öl, er drukkit er.
-Hávamál, vísa 81
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,222

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 7:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Back in my younger days, when I could still ride a horse and was on the jousting circuit, I had a full suit of Gothic plate. I loved it, and so did the ladies. I love the 'wasp waisted' look and all the fluting and fanciness. I wish I still had my pictures, but they got water damaged during a move. Oh well........I can still get another suit. Big Grin ........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
View user's profile Send private message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 7:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies guys. So it is indeed the cost and not the look of it that deters people. I wonder would this have been a historical factor too? Did Gothic armor compete on the same armor market as Milanese white armor with one being significantly cheaper than the other?

Another question which might not fit in the off-topic section; How does the mail pant (brayyene something) work? Does it have straps on the side or is one supposed to put it on like a normal trouser? Does it have quilted padding and is there any evidence for it protection the whole backside of the upper leg?
View user's profile Send private message
Lance Morris




Location: NYC
Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 170

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 8:29 am    Post subject: im getting gothic armour         Reply with quote

Hey,

It is more expensive but very sexy. My next rig is infact gothic made from 410 stainless. its not gonna be ready for a long time
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,222

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lance............I will reeeeeeeeealy want to see that. Thanks.......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are high gothic armor for low price, but their shaping is not as good if you are very picky. Namely the waist shape is like a barrel.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,158

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward Lee wrote:
There are high gothic armor for low price, but their shaping is not as good if you are very picky. Namely the waist shape is like a barrel.

Many of us don't see the point in buying Gothic plate unless it is made properly. IMO many of the cheaper examples shouldn't be considered Gothic plate at all.

Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




Location: Kingdom of Æthelmearc
Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I ever buy a set of full plate armor, it will be gothic.
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Sun 19 Oct, 2014 7:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gothic is the easiest to get wrong. There is waaaaay too much of it over here in the UK if your are trying to portray your standard 1470's English impression and people havent the faintest idea just what owning one of those means as per your status.

Oh look, here is the X University Wars of the Roses group and they have two bad examples of the Helmschmied Sigismund or A21 in there. So several seconds doing the 'oh that looks cool' method of research has gone into them and they have used collections and source material as some kind of shopping catalogue where common sense and thoughtful reconstruction has gone out the window.

I own such a thing and would never wear it unless for some outlandish reason, they are so not typical over here. It is the prime example of when people make bad copies of good armour when they should be attempting good copies of 'bad' i.e the middling and lower sort. Unless your client really is going to do the knight thing properly or you are blinded by the size of his/her wallet!

Griff

Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
View user's profile Send private message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sun 19 Oct, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Griffin wrote:
Gothic is the easiest to get wrong. There is waaaaay too much of it over here in the UK if your are trying to portray your standard 1470's English impression and people havent the faintest idea just what owning one of those means as per your status.

Oh look, here is the X University Wars of the Roses group and they have two bad examples of the Helmschmied Sigismund or A21 in there. So several seconds doing the 'oh that looks cool' method of research has gone into them and they have used collections and source material as some kind of shopping catalogue where common sense and thoughtful reconstruction has gone out the window.

I own such a thing and would never wear it unless for some outlandish reason, they are so not typical over here. It is the prime example of when people make bad copies of good armour when they should be attempting good copies of 'bad' i.e the middling and lower sort. Unless your client really is going to do the knight thing properly or you are blinded by the size of his/her wallet!

Griff


Could you elaborate on this for a little bit? What do you mean with the "as per your status", as in to many people wearing bad copies of top of the line armor?
View user's profile Send private message
Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Sun 19 Oct, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The thing with the really fancy High Gothic armour is twofold: First, it has a lot of detail. Careful fluting, some very nice lines, and overall the whole package tends to be very well put together. Secondly, and this derives from the first, it costs a lot more. Because of its design and detail, it has to be much more custom-fitted than other types-- all armour should be custom fit for the best effect, of course, but High Gothic is a particularly close fitted and shapely style. As such it is essential to measure many parts of the body.

More metal, advanced hammer-work, and extra time finishing it will only add to the cost. There is a reason some of the best preserved suits of armour out there are from this period-- they were not cheap, so people took care of them.

That said, it is worth taking a look at lower end examples of the style, and also to bear in mind that this was a period where lots of armour was traded back and forth across Europe. Mass-produced Italian armour might have armed troops under Sigismund in his fancy kit, for example.

Italianate armour, I think, is popular among re-enactors because it costs less. It doesn't have as much fluting, rounded forms are easier to shape, and it may not have as many parts to put together (not sure on that last).
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > What is it with Gothic armor?
Page 1 of 3 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum