Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search


Please help our efforts with a donation. This site requires ongoing funding and your donations are crucial to our future.
Last 10 Donors: Neil Eddiford, Chad Arnow, Jean Thibodeau, Robert Morgan, Adam Rose, Jerry Otahal, Michael P. Smith, Mikko Kuusirati, Eric Bergeron, Daniel Staberg (View All Donors)

Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > What are the different articulations in armor (manly plate) Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Gerald Fa.





Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun 05 Oct, 2014 9:17 pm    Post subject: What are the different articulations in armor (manly plate)         Reply with quote

Ok I do not understand the terms of "shell articulation", "floating articulation" and then there is "compression articulation" on armor. Can someone help me a bit! Because I feel really dumb right now, as I thought I knew a lot about armor, and yet there is always something that will fly at me like "what is that?"

Also I herd that the Italians generally use "shell articulation" while Germans use "floating articulation". Is that overall true? (well not for every signal armor but generally)

What other articulations are there? Can anyone give me examples or pictures?

THANKS!! Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Sun 05 Oct, 2014 11:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"Shell articulation" on the front of the knee, and "compression articulation" over the back of the joint.


"Floating articulation" is held together with straps or lacing points rather than rivets.


At least that's my meager understanding of the way the terminology is generally used.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 5:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think you'll get any sort of satisfactory answer from forum posts, since these terms carry a great deal of technical baggage with them with regards to how individual pieces/lames in the articulation would have to be shaped, assembled, and articulated with other pieces. If you're really curious, why not get a relatively accessible armouring book like Brian Price's Techniques of Medieval Armor Reproduction?
View user's profile Send private message
Gerald Fa.





Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
"Shell articulation" on the front of the knee, and "compression articulation" over the back of the joint.


"Floating articulation" is held together with straps or lacing points rather than rivets.


At least that's my meager understanding of the way the terminology is generally used.



Hummmmm, I see, looks entrusting. Is one better than the other? Or are there ups &downs to one and the other?



Lafayette C Curtis wrote:
I don't think you'll get any sort of satisfactory answer from forum posts, since these terms carry a great deal of technical baggage with them with regards to how individual pieces/lames in the articulation would have to be shaped, assembled, and articulated with other pieces. If you're really curious, why not get a relatively accessible armouring book like Brian Price's Techniques of Medieval Armor Reproduction?



I see what you are saying. And yes I do agree with you 100%, but for now I want to get any general idea of what they are.


This may sound bad but the thing is I have been so busy these past few weeks that I do not have the patience on looking it up even on the Arms & armor books I have. I have a hard time looking up in Google, so I came here to see of I can get any general idea at the very least on a quick answer. HOWEVER when I have time I will start my readings again even if it is answered on here; as it is always good to have books to back one person up. Things should calm down no later thanby the 19th of this month or a bit sooner. Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm thinking...why do you need to know?

Quote:
ummmmm, I see, looks entrusting. Is one better than the other? Or are there ups &downs to one and the other?


They are used mainly because thats the best method for the job in hand or there just isn't any other way to create the item and make it work. A negative point that springs to mind is that floating items can wear through whatever they are suspended by but thats solved by having a second one in place or just using jolly good points and tieing them so excess movement and abrasion is minimised.
There are only a few items that can float realy, couters and pauldrons and the main ones.

'shell' articulation is not something I've heard in general use. you only get compression articulation on lames that have slots in the rivet holes so the lames not only swivel on the shank of the rivet but can slide over each other. Not sure what I'd call lames that simply have a hole that allows the lames to rotate on that axis and not move laterally....

Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
View user's profile Send private message
Gerald Fa.





Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue 21 Oct, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Griffin wrote:
I'm thinking...why do you need to know?

Quote:
ummmmm, I see, looks entrusting. Is one better than the other? Or are there ups &downs to one and the other?


They are used mainly because thats the best method for the job in hand or there just isn't any other way to create the item and make it work. A negative point that springs to mind is that floating items can wear through whatever they are suspended by but thats solved by having a second one in place or just using jolly good points and tieing them so excess movement and abrasion is minimised.
There are only a few items that can float realy, couters and pauldrons and the main ones.

'shell' articulation is not something I've heard in general use. you only get compression articulation on lames that have slots in the rivet holes so the lames not only swivel on the shank of the rivet but can slide over each other. Not sure what I'd call lames that simply have a hole that allows the lames to rotate on that axis and not move laterally....


I see now, but one last thing.


And or

Would the Lorica Segmentata Roman armor and that arm armor you see there be "compression articulation"?
View user's profile Send private message
Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Tue 21 Oct, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Would the Lorica Segmentata Roman armor and that arm armor you see there be "compression articulation"?


I am unsure of what you could call it specifically, but I believe it would fall under a category of 'floating' articulation. The body of the lorica was held together by leather strips riveted to the plates, and the shoulders were held in much the same manner, attached to the body by hooks. The arm armour is laced together. It flexes, it does not actually 'compress' as in the pieces collapsing into each other. They are 'floating' because they are not riveted together by metal-to-metal joints but rather by metal to leather, and they are not fixed one plate to another.

To put it another way-- regular articulation covers the *outside* of a bend, while compression articulation has to be made in such a way that it covers the *inside* of the bend. It is a very different dynamic than regular articulation although it shares the same basic principles of plates attached to and interacting with each other.

That's my understanding of it anyway...
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > What are the different articulations in armor (manly plate)
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum