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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 2:57 am    Post subject: Arms from the Mary Rose (Photos)         Reply with quote

Hi all,

I thought that I would put up some photos of the arms and armour in the Mary Rose museum in Portsmouth UK as I haven’t seen any on this forum. Link to the website: http://www.maryrose.org/

The preservation of wooden items is incredible but unfortunately almost all of the steel/iron has been eaten away by bacteria that is unique to the Mary Rose wreck.
Although the museum itself is fantastic with many artefacts on display, I would recommend that If you plan on visiting to see the ship, I would advise you visit in a few year’s time when they remove all of the pipes and scaffolding surrounding the ship so that you can get a much clearer view. As currently the ship is very hard to see from the few port holes they allow you to look through.

What struck me most about the Mary Rose was that it was at a very transitional period in Warefair as pretty much everything is present in some form on the ship. You have longbows (LOTS), arquebus, halberds/bills, spears, basket hilt swords, Bollock daggers and at least three different types of cannon.

Bollock dagger hilts


Basket hilt sword and scabbard. Can't remember if it was a bastard or not but the hilt looks long. There seems to be a section on the scabbard for a knife to be inserted


Sword scabbard with suspension


Another view of bollock daggers and knifes


Leather Bracers


Longbow, arrow and a part of a quiver


More Longbows stored in a chest (Looks like the archers did not have personal bows, I wonder if all bows were of the same poundage)


An archers kit


Knife and sheath


Shoes (For you re-enactors out there)


Last bollock dagger


Canon bits and bobs


Two types of cannon. Front loaded and the rarer Breach loaded cannon.


Last edited by William M on Tue 11 Mar, 2014 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Will S




Location: Bournemouth, UK
Joined: 25 Nov 2013

Posts: 161

PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 3:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good pics! When I went recently all I took were pics of the warbows! Was way too excited about them to focus on anything else.

One theory that is circulating about the bows is that each bowyers mark dictates a different poundage. There are some with three notches in various patterns, some with 4, some with 5 and right up to 7 arranged in a tree shape. If each pattern indicated a different poundage, grabbing one that suits you is a lot easier. Of course there are also bows with much more unique, intricate marks which may be personal bows.

I love the bow you've shown in picture 6 - was still braced when the MR sank and the string rotted away leaving the bow forever in the form of the brace shape. Shows a perfect, full compass tiller!
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 4:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That would make sense with the notch dictating the poundage, as I was thinking that due to the sheer quantity of bows there could be no way that everybody had the same strength to be able to shoot a generically high poundage bow. For me I quite liked the bracers as this is something I had not seen before.

Here is the link to my photobucket album, as I didn't put up all the photos of the bows. http://s63.photobucket.com/user/william-m/library/Mary%20rose
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll point out that the scabbard suspension shown is very interesting. It's hard to see here but very clear in the Weapons of Warre diagram--we're looking at two straps, joined in a single knot at top. At bottom, each strap splits into two straps, then into two more.The last, smallest, straps wrap around the second set of straps and tie. If you look closely you can see those knots on top of the straps just above the scabbard. [THIS IS INCORRECT--SEE BELOW]. It appears to be dead simple, and I look forward to trying it soon. IIRC, the knot at top just pushes through a hole in the belt to create a simple quick-release. Don't quote me on that, but I think that's right.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Tue 11 Mar, 2014 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for these William.

I have not yet made it to the exhibition, I tried a month ago and was turned away at the gate due to roof tiles blowing off in a very strong wind - so close! But it shows how much I need to get there.

Sean I made a reproduction of the scabbard shown here http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=southwark and dipped out of the knot but replaced it with a bead, but I miss the straps splitting into straps detail - thanks for the heads up.


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Stephen Curtin




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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing these William.
Éirinn go Brách
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
Thanks for these William.

I have not yet made it to the exhibition, I tried a month ago and was turned away at the gate due to roof tiles blowing off in a very strong wind - so close! But it shows how much I need to get there.

Sean I made a reproduction of the scabbard shown here http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=southwark and dipped out of the knot but replaced it with a bead, but I miss the straps splitting into straps detail - thanks for the heads up.


Tod


That's fantastic, Tod! How did I miss that thread??? Well, I'll try to get a shot of the diagram and post here. I, too, wondered if a bead would work. Can't wait to try this!

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Tue 11 Mar, 2014 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

just checked WOW and saw that I'm wrong about the ties being formed by a second split. It's a separate thong. I misread the text AND image! Looks like your reconstucted suspension is exactly right, Tod.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Michael Beeching





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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is quite neat to see. Personally, I think the coolest thing to see in all of these shots are the longbow, the bolts, and the arrows - it really does look like that if one were to string the bow and fletch the arrows, they would be serviceable.

...It also reinforces my great disdain for ballock daggers. Seldom have I seen a knife design so crude, and this is quite well illustrated in the images. At the same time... I suppose it is a rather amusing demonstration on how designs originating from traditional art are often so simple and basic in concept. In the case of the ballock dagger, it's so basic that it could arguably be called juvenile in most cases.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Mar, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Beeching wrote:


...It also reinforces my great disdain for ballock daggers. Seldom have I seen a knife design so crude, and this is quite well illustrated in the images. At the same time... I suppose it is a rather amusing demonstration on how designs originating from traditional art are often so simple and basic in concept. In the case of the ballock dagger, it's so basic that it could arguably be called juvenile in most cases.


Really? Happy There are some very elegant examples, just as there are some very crude ones. See here for some examples. I don't want to derail this thread any more, but your comment was very interesting to me. Perhaps we can discuss this in some other thread.

Happy

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Greg Ballantyne




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PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was just admiring the bollock daggers, and the variation represented. These pictures reinforce my desire for a good reproduction example of this kind of dagger. Interesting how both single edge and double edge daggers are represented, and some of them appear to represent transitions toward the dirk.
Thanks for posting these, William.
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Aaron O'Bryan-Herriott




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PostPosted: Thu 13 Mar, 2014 9:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Excellent pics and a greatly appreciated contribution. Thank you William.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Mar, 2014 8:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some scabbard details from Weapons of Warre


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mrscabbard5.gif


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belt.gif


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mrscabbard.gif


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mrscabbs.gif


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mrscabb.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
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PostPosted: Sat 15 Mar, 2014 5:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are ever in the UK and can plan a visit then get in contact in advance, they are very keen to let people into the stores and have look close up.
Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sat 15 Mar, 2014 5:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd bet, by the looks of them, some of those bows would still string up and fire. Incredible!..........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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