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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: New MRL Sword of Santa Casilda         Reply with quote

MRL has a new sword out, based on the famous sword of Santa Casilda. Intriguing....

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-2324-sword-of-santa-casilda.aspx








Happy

ChadA

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Last edited by Chad Arnow on Mon 04 Nov, 2013 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pretty dang good replica. It's almost spot-on to the original, A bit gaudy for my taste, but nice. Wink ......McM
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Terry Thompson




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PostPosted: Tue 05 Nov, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not trying to troll, but I don't think that's a very good replica at all. They are off just by the two dimensions we can see. The blade length compared to the proportions of the cross-hilt and pommel is off by a good margin , the blade taper is different most notable at the tip, and the grip is parallel (tubular) on the replica, but tapered on the original. Also, it looks like the pommel MRLs is about 4 times thicker than the original. And I can't make out the raised boarder going all the way around the crosshilt of the original. But on the replica it's huge.

I like some of MRLs stuff for the price, but I think "spot-on" is a bit of puffery or wishful thinking going by these photos.
The fuller looks like a close representation, though.

-Terry
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Robert Mc
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Location: Zvolen Slovakia
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Nov, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Santa Casilda is beautiful sword,I have replica in progess now...
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Ian Hutchison




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PostPosted: Tue 05 Nov, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does the original have the diamond cross-section near the tip?
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Tue 05 Nov, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ian Hutchison wrote:
Does the original have the diamond cross-section near the tip?


You can't absolutely tell from those photos, but the original's blade looks lenticular, like other Type XII's.
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 05 Nov, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Thompson wrote:
Not trying to troll, but I don't think that's a very good replica at all. They are off just by the two dimensions we can see. The blade length compared to the proportions of the cross-hilt and pommel is off by a good margin , the blade taper is different most notable at the tip, and the grip is parallel (tubular) on the replica, but tapered on the original. Also, it looks like the pommel MRLs is about 4 times thicker than the original. And I can't make out the raised boarder going all the way around the crosshilt of the original. But on the replica it's huge.

I like some of MRLs stuff for the price, but I think "spot-on" is a bit of puffery or wishful thinking going by these photos.
The fuller looks like a close representation, though.

-Terry


Well put. I too think this replica is weak at best. The proportions just don't work for me, whereas the proportions in the original are superb! The grip is the part that I find more jarring. I can only use the word "hideous" to describe it. I have to disagree about the fuller too. The reproduction has a wide tapering fuller whereas the original has a thin straight one. The fuller termination is totally wrong too, but I blame that more on the incorrect blade cross section (diamond instead of lenticular). The "soft" features on the guard really bother me too. All wrong in my opinion, and actually a very ugly sword.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Nov, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No wonder people call myArmoury elitist and snobby.... Wink

I agree it's not the finest sword in the world. But:

1) It's $400.
2) It's a sword made by Museum Replicas Limited that is actually a replica of a museum piece, something they don't do very much of it seems.
3) It's very detailed for a production sword of any price range.
4) As far as I know, it's the first MRL sword to have a diamond overwrap.
5) While the fuller width isn't great for replicating this original, it looks to be a wider shallower fuller than many they do, and I think it's a nice addition to what cross-sections they can do.
6) The scabbard appears to be several steps up for MRL, though it's not without its problems.
7) Together with the new Castilian rapier, they're getting ambitious and being historical too.
8) It's $400.

Anyone expecting a true lenticular blade section hasn't been paying attention to MRL through the years. Their 2-edged blades seem to be almost exclusively ground to a diamond section, then the fuller(s) is/are added. It's not correct but it's what they've done for the better part of two decades.

To me, this sword represents a good direction for MRL to explore. It's not a perfect offering but looks a heck of a lot better than much of what they've put out in the past decade.

Happy

ChadA

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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Tue 05 Nov, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for that, Chad. As a confirmed non-snob.....I just like kick-ass looking swords. Historical accuracy is great...but not essential...depending what you want....and what you can afford....and what the makers can do....and how damned worried you are about what someone else thinks about it. I like the sword...not something I'd buy...but I'll give it a 6 out of 10. Not bad, not bad at all............McM
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm a sucker for historical accuracy. That's what draws my attention. I like having extant originals replicated.

Having said that, one has to acknowledge that any replica has its limits as to how close it got to the original. Nothing is going to be a clone. Nothing.

So when I look at a sword like this, I consider it in context. In this particular case, the context was explained in detail by Chad. For me, the most telling bit of this context is the price point.

It's not as close of a replica as I'd personally want, but I would of course expect to pay a great deal more to get my needs met. People like me are few and far between. We forget that on a site like this. The audience is very small. Museum Replicas has a different audience with its own needs.

I consider this a good direction by Museum Replicas and I'm happy to see it.

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Nathan Gilleland





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PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov, 2013 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are some pretty obvious differences, but as others have said already, I'm excited to see Museum Replicas branching into more historical designs again. The grip seems the most 'off' to me, but that is something that you can correct with a bit of time and work. Take the leather off, reshape the grip and rewrap it.

For the price, you get a decent reproduction. That's more than I can say for some of the designs.


(the Dresden rapier for example.)

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J. Hargis




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov, 2013 7:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to agree with Terry & Tim here, it just looks cheap, a la those Spanish made tourist swords, even at $400.
With MRL's low costs, additional effort per piece would probably do wonders to it's appearance, regardless of blade shape & dimensions. The original deserves better, which I truly believe MRL is capable of. It is, however, encouraging to see their attempt.

I'm looking for forward to Robert Moc's interpretation of the original.

What, me a snob?

Jon

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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Nov, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:

Anyone expecting a true lenticular blade section hasn't been paying attention to MRL through the years. Their 2-edged blades seem to be almost exclusively ground to a diamond section, then the fuller(s) is/are added. It's not correct but it's what they've done for the better part of two decades.


... and it isn't that hard to lenticufy a diamond section point. File and stone, and time. Polishing to match the rest of the blade would take longer than the actual reshaping. One could sharpen the whole blade, and then everything outside the fullers would match OK.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Terry Thompson




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, call me a snob. But the point I was originally making was specifically towards the comment of how identical it was to the original (which I was not agreeing with), regardless of cost. But on the point of price, I think Windlass has done a lot better on previous replicas at a much cheaper cost.
Immediately coming to mind are some of my favorites; German Falchion (Thorpe falchion knock-off. $220? 2/3 price of this one), the Italian Falchion (replica from painting, if I remember correctly; $295. 3/4 the price of this one), the Medieval Short Sword (copy of a copy of the MET sword; $160? less than half of this sword. Now the scabbard on this one was actually quite bad), and the german mace that had the solid (not hollow) handle. All of those I thought were great improvements that I was hoping would be a continuing trend for MRL.

And I want to quantify that I'm a fan of a lot more MRL swords at lesser price points. But at $400, personally, I would rather save-up another $100 and get a hold of a Valiant Armory sword, or hope that someone is looking to sell an A&A or Albion at a discount. In fact, there are several hanwei swords that I think are better use of $300- $400.
-Terry
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Greg Ballantyne




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Nov, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The easy part would to get the grip/pommel right - the taper and length of the grip meeting the seemingly larger diameter pommel on the original being one of the quite noticeable misses on the reproduction. The blade is always harder it seems, the diamond vs. lenticular section of the blade below the fuller being a miss on a number of swords in this price range, along with the more difficult reproduction of the blade proportions, taper, and profile. Again, as others have mentioned, it usually comes down to the price. And has also been mentioned, in this thread and others, there are varying degrees of accuracy, utility, and quality at these lower price points.
However, I have to agree that for MRL this does represent one of their better efforts.
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Nov, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As I said before, I think this is an okay replica. Not something I would buy, personally. I agree, the grip could be reshaped a bit to match the original.....then it would be a GREAT replica! Then, and only then, might I think of adding it to my collection. I like this sword....but it just needs a few small tweaks to make it really stand out. It's like a fine micro-brew beer with just a hint of aftertaste... Laughing Out Loud ...........McM
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Nov, 2013 6:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A good number of these mistakes are often present in much more expensive replicas. Arms&Armour are very respected and they still put diamond section where lenticular section should be on many of their swords.
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Greg Ballantyne




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Nov, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I for one would be quick to say that I've forgiven a number of transgressions in a lower price point reproduction. The diamond section instead of the lenticular section is one of the most common. Pommel differences abound, more in the view less seen (edge) than in the full on view. If the sword in question fulfills the expectation of the buyer then the product will be judged as a success by that buyer. If the marketing produces an expectation that the product cannot meet, the outcome of course is different...... Any movement by any maker towards better quality product is a good thing in my estimation.
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Danny Grigg





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PostPosted: Sat 16 Nov, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a few colour pics of the original sword:

http://www.oronoz.com/paginas/leefoto.php?ref...p;usuario=
http://www.oronoz.com/paginas/leefoto.php?ref...p;usuario=

http://www.oronoz.com/paginas/muestrafotostit...bla=Claves

Hopefully the links above will work...


Danny
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